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Suicide, What are your thoughts?
Carnal Malefacto...
post Nov 23 2005, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE(zombie @ Nov 23 2005, 10:12 PM) [snapback]318961[/snapback]

No its not. its still suicide.

What are you, retarded? There's a world of difference between some terminally ill geriatric who just wants the pain to end and knows there's no hope for a cure, and some pathetic 16-year-old depressed goth kid who decides it's time to bow out because he's ostracized at school.


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zombie
post Nov 23 2005, 08:31 PM
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What if this goth kid was out of their mind when they kill themself
Most of the time when people do kill themself they are not thinking right and have no idea what they are doing.

And yes there is a dofference but its still suicide.
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Carnal Malefacto...
post Nov 23 2005, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE(zombie @ Nov 23 2005, 10:16 PM) [snapback]318967[/snapback]

What if this goth kid was out of their mind when they kill themself
Most of the time when people do kill themself they are not thinking right and have no idea what they are doing.

'not thinking right' is a temporary state of mnd. A terminal disease is permanent.


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Celestial Shadow
post Nov 23 2005, 08:38 PM
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But Bacon, you DO realize that there are certain emotional situations that would make a "normal" person feel like comitting suicide, don't you?


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Carnal Malefacto...
post Nov 23 2005, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE(Celestial Fangirl @ Nov 23 2005, 10:23 PM) [snapback]318975[/snapback]

But Bacon, you DO realize that there are certain emotional situations that would make a "normal" person feel like comitting suicide, don't you?

Again... permanent solution to a temporary problem.


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Celestial Shadow
post Nov 23 2005, 08:43 PM
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True, but the problem could be reoccuring.


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Carnal Malefacto...
post Nov 23 2005, 08:45 PM
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QUOTE(Celestial Fangirl @ Nov 23 2005, 10:28 PM) [snapback]318981[/snapback]

True, but the problem could be reoccuring.

Go see a shrink about it. Get counseling. I have zero sympathy for people who commit suicide because of depression.


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Molecular Alchem...
post Nov 23 2005, 08:50 PM
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I really can't understand why anyone would want to kill themselves...well, aside from what I deem "special cases" ...like... a benevolant cause (the greater good)..etc. I mean, there are exceptions, but for the most part, I think that suicide is stupid, for lack of a better word. We all go through crap in our lives...plain and simple. If we didn't, we wouldn't be living. The beauty of it all is learning how to overcome our hardships and become a stronger person...giving in to fear and sadness...no.....suicide should never be an option.

*Note.."greater good" means that by sacrificing youself, you would save the lives of others....umm..doesn't happen often..but, in my opinion...I think it would be worth it smile.gif


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bryantq
post Nov 23 2005, 08:53 PM
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Tsk tsk, we must teach people to channel those emotional situations into hatred tongue.gif. lol

Instead of killing yourself, kill others! or something tongue.gif

I jest, but of all things in this world from plants to animals to humans, friends, foes, neighbors, enemies -- we all strive for one thing unconditionally: to survive.

Suicide comes to humans with the idea that it is a way out from a potentially unseen future. To take a radical spin on it: a soldier captured in war, who KNOWS his enemy will torture him and eventually kill him, would rather die at his own hands than suffer further.

However, it is the inability for some to appropriately gauge the situation that they are in. For this soldier may be rescued, unbeknownst to him. Whether or not the soldier can determine if rescue is possible is the key factor.

A person feels that life is no longer worth living, because nothing could ever be any better, and will only go worse, however as most people will point out, life is what you make of it. However that person, may determine that there is no plausible way that things could get better.

I beg to differ. Life is a gift, living your life is a challenge, an honor, and a means to discover oneself.

You live your life to honor yourself, your family, your work, your ideals and beliefs. You live your life in a manner to challenge yourself, through peril, tribulation, joys, defeats, and victory. You live to defend your ideals, you live to embrace your beliefs and stand up for them. You have plenty of reasons to live... but once again, life is what you make of it.

I believe it is a human's responsibility to themselves and to nature to strive, to perservere, and to live. Live to see the next day, live to accomplish your goals, live to do what you want.

That soldier can fight. In the very least he can die trying to live.

Terminally ill? Work to do the things you want to do. fight or die trying.

Life is hard? Life is sad? Work to turn it around into your favor, or die trying.

But don't give up, for that makes existance meaningless. Because that means you've wasted everyone's time. If you concede, you are wasting the valuable, precious time that your family, your parents, your friends, your teachers have invested into YOU.

My two cents. Now if only others could see it the same way.


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Celestial Shadow
post Nov 23 2005, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE(bryantq @ Nov 23 2005, 09:38 PM) [snapback]318988[/snapback]

My two cents. Now if only others could see it the same way.
More like 5 cents, sir @.@ But well said.

I believe everything you said was true but...When you're truly, REALLY depressed, you sometimes can't think straight. No matter what you may have believed at one time, when you fall into total despair, you're likely to do things you wouldn't.

Sometimes a way out can seem so seductive...Even if you are deluding yourself into thinking anything can be better than your current life. It only takes one shot, one split-second decision to end your life. Whether or not you regret it then, it's too late.

People tend to look upon souls like these in this kind of situation (which I suspect what happens to most suicide "victims") and say they were weak, pathetic, and didn't deserve life anyway. Yeah, they are weak, but why can't people understand exactly why they sometimes do it?


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Envy's lil...
post Nov 23 2005, 09:06 PM
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I don't really know if I consider someone who is suicidal selfish. As someone who used to suffer from horrible bouts of depression I remember what a hopeless loser I felt like and if I left this world it wouldn't make one bit of difference. I used to spend days curled up on the couch in a fetal position or in bed wishing it would all end. I went though depression for years and nobody want to deal with someobody that depressed because "you're bumming me out man" so of course you do feel alone like nobody cares. When you're that depressed they don't.

As a teen I had a horrible family life and got laughed at when I told my family I was going to kill myself. I tried to slit my wrists, couldn't, my self preservation wouldn't let me and I was too much of a wus to do it. I went though my grandparent meds trying to figure out if anything was leathal but decided against it because I didn't want to end up in the hospital with some perminate damage to my body. I was a prefectionist if it wasn't going to kill me I didn't want to bother. I couldn't hang myself because I lived in a moble home and the celling wouldn't hold. There was no trains to jump in front of and no building tall enought to jump off that would kill me. So I stuck it out best I could and told myself I would be an adult soon and be able to get away from all of it.

But I carried it into adulthood it wasn't just a teenage phase. By then I was good at talking myself out of suicide so I never tried as an adult. Although I did have a plan if I decided to really go through with it I was going to fly to somewhere like Hawaii and walk into the ocean. However, as I got older I started to realize that if I had killed myself back then there's lots of things I never would of gotten to do and people I never would of gotten to meet. Often I would be doing those things and say to myself "If I had killed myself I wouldn't be here doing this right now" I began to realize that there would be people that did love me and would be greatly affected if I did go thought with it. If I had snuffed it I never would of gotten to run off and join the circus, I never would of gotten to perform in all the shows I did, I never would of been able to make costume and dress up like a big dork at conventions and meet at the cool people I've meet doing these things.

So yes it's selfish to take your own life because there are people who will be greatly affected by it but nobody can understand the hopelessness and self loathing that somebody who suffers from that level of depression goes though unless they themselves go through it and telling someone to get over it doesn't work because if they could get over it they would believe me.

I've noticed I don't go through depression like I used to now that I've started studying buddhism and putting the praticies into my life. I still get the blues now and then but I deal with the suffering of life much better than I used to.
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bryantq
post Nov 23 2005, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE(Celestial Fangirl @ Nov 23 2005, 08:45 PM) [snapback]318993[/snapback]

Yeah, they are weak, but why can't people understand exactly why they sometimes do it?


I don't intend to say i know it all or know all the reasons but heres what i think:

Why they do it is because they feel they've been beaten.

If life keeps giving you blows, you hurt, you pain, you wince. I say, Grin and bear, pick yourself up, fight back, work hard. Sounds hard. Harder than anyone could possibly imagine, and harder than anyone could compare to.

When the true thought of suicide arrives, the amount of psychological turmoil is severe. It takes a strong will to survive. It takes an even stronger person to do what i said.

I feel the biggest problem that people who consider suicide have is that they feel they are alone. You might not be able to fight back by yourself, but there are people who care, and are willing to help you. It is through friendship and support that people can save themselves. They also think that their lives dont impact anyone, but undoubtedly they do.

No one is alone in this world, and thats something that everyone needs to remember.


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Celestial Shadow
post Nov 23 2005, 09:21 PM
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@Mini- I empathize with you more than I would like. Besides being too much of a coward, I just felt that it wasn't fair to others to do that...That and I never want to be the girl everyone gossips about in school about how she killed herself. I just can't stand the thought of people judging me and saying whatever they want without me being able to be there and defend myself.

You're kind of an inspiration for me I guess.


@bryantq- I admire your personality, I really do. I even envy it. Keep thinking that way, but don't forget that there are others who aren't as strong as you sir smile.gif


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Bling_bling_Ange...
post Nov 23 2005, 09:27 PM
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*shrugs*

For me--please note the term "FOR ME", meaning I'm not making it a dogma--I find suicide very stupid, with the exception cited by Bacon. [I agree with him].

Suicide is very stupid and unfortunately shows how very narrow-minded you are. [another word for stupid, I guess... tongue.gif] I mean, it's a cliche, but I strongly believe in the saying "There's hope while you breathe". Okay, so life can be a reallll damn bitch at times, but are you gonna give up just cuz of THAT? I mean, heck, other people have gone through rougher things and yet survived, and over some heartbreak or whatnot, you're gonna end it all? It's stupid, plain and simple. I mean, hello? There'e a tomorrow - and you CAN do something about it, depsite what that seedy little voice at the back of your head is telling you.


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Celestial Shadow
post Nov 23 2005, 09:34 PM
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You're just one of those fortunate people, Blingy.


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