HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Chapter 95 "Regular" Discussion Thread For First Time Readers (and Others), No future chapter spoilers here, please. :)
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Causmicfire
post May 11 2009, 01:17 PM
Post #421


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I love how everyone just falls under Olivier's command XD

While I absolutely adore the Roy & Riza panels, my favorite panel from this chapter is the one where Ed is reflected in Envy's eye.


I just want to say thanks to both Tombow and HisshouBuraiKen for translating the chapter. I don't know what I'd do if had to wait for Viz to bring it over to us.


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Kale Mustang
post May 11 2009, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE (Causmicfire @ May 11 2009, 01:17 PM) *
I don't know what I'd do if had to wait for Viz to bring it over to us.


It would be a long...cold wait...blech...

After all, I just managed to snag Viz's Vol. 18 (which only covers up chs. 70-74) this past weekend (it doesn't officially come out until the 19th).

We'll probably be on chapter 100 by the time Viz decides to bring over Vol. 20...


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RoyxRizaFan
post May 11 2009, 01:44 PM
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Thanks to Tombow, Causmicfire, and everyone else who provided RAWs! You're all life savers, you know that? LOL One more day w/o this chapter and who knows what would have happened...

Oh man where to start? What a chapter!!! I loved how everyone got their own little argument in to Roy, but each of them had something different to say. Roy was concerned about him as a future leader, Scar was concerned for him as a man, and Riza was concerned for him as a flame alchemist.

Of course I have to comment on the delicious RoyAi Arakawa blessed us with rolleyes.gif I felt so bad for Riza because she looked so upset and her hands were shaking as she held the gun to him. And I agree with whoever it was that said she'd die with him without any problem. Really, it was sad to see her like that, but YAY Roy snapped out of it because of what she said (oh, and those other two as well, I suppose tongue.gif ) And then the two of them collasping afterward...oh man. Intensity.

@ Envy, I'm not sure either way. It seems like a fitting way for him to go because is such a low-life and a "coward", as Roy put it, but I also agree with what Claudius said, that somehow manga!Envy's suicide isn't as easy to buy as an anime!Envy's would have been, if that makes sense. IDK Envy was probably hiding this all by downtalking humans all along, but I've never seen it until now and he jsut IMMEDIATELY killed himself after admitting this. It...I don't have a problem, but it's not something I'm loving quite yet. Perhaps it'll be better when I can read the complete chapter, IDK

@ Armstrong siblings - OK, yeah, it's all epic, but most of all WTF HIS SHOULDER? That was freaking amazing...

Yay for Izumi! FINALLY! But then again, now all the sacrifices are almost in place...

QUOTE (Capella @ May 11 2009, 10:37 AM) *
The only thing better would have been if I could have had that scene for a bit longer instead of immediately switching over to Envy. You kill me, you two, you really do.


*nods*

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Rocktigerlilly
post May 11 2009, 02:12 PM
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Scanlations are supposedly out at http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/fullmetalalchemist/25/95

haven't started reading it yet - but I'm starting now smile.gif biggrin.gif
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Full Metal Elf
post May 11 2009, 02:39 PM
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Finally read scanlations and all I can say is WOW...followed by...

DLJFSDKFJDSLJ ZOMG...*weez*...XP


Incredible chapter! As I stated before, Envy's death was perfect! It was unexpected, but fitting. The way Roy gave-up his moment of revenge and fell onto his knees was...whew...amazing too.

There's too much to say and I just don't know how to get it out...

I <3 Olivier Armstrong still!! LOVE that woman! happy.gif

And I am SOOOO happy to see Izumi again!! Now I am once again DYING for the next chapter to see what she's going to do! lol



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HisshouBuraiKen
post May 11 2009, 03:04 PM
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Well I couldn't post it earlier but here's my translation (for completeness sake biggrin.gif ), the scan is already out here: http://franky-house.com/forums/showthread....ed=1#post305484


Page 1:
Side: Roy's soul is stained black by hatred and rage!

Mustang: I'll only say it one more time.
Hand him over, Fullmetal.
Ed: Forget it!

Page 2:
White Text: I promise nothing, but I'm ready for anything.
Title: Beyond the Flames

Page 3:
Envy: Ngh-
You-
SFX: Gnaw gnaw

Envy: That's right, his right arm is automail...
...., I can't possess him!

Mustang: He deserves a painful, humiliating death.
Give him to me.

Page 4:
Ed: I said NO.

Mustang: GIVE HIM TO ME, FULLMETAL!
OR I'LL BURN YOUR ARM OFF WITH HIM!
Ed: Bring it, b*tch!
I'll take you on any time!

Page 5:
Ed: Just take a good look at your face before you do anything!
You think you can lead a country looking like that?!

That's what you goal was supposed to be!

Scar: ...Or will you let your fury turn you into little more than an animal?
That's your other option.

Page 6:
Scar: It won't bother me if you sink to OUR level.
Ed: Hey!

Scar: I have no right to stop anyone from taking revenge.

However,
I wonder how a world led by a beast in human skin would end up.

Hawkeye: I can't let you kill Envy, Colonel.
But I don't intend to let him live.
I'LL take care of him.

Page 7:
Mustang: It's taken so long!
But I FINALLY have him!
Hawkeye: I understand!
But-

It's not to help the country or save a comrade!
You only want to kill him to satisfy your own hatred!

Please, Colonel...

Page 8:
Hawkeye: Don't go where I can't follow!

Mustang: If you're going to shoot, shoot.
What will you do after I'm dead?

Page 9:
Hawkeye: I have no desire to live a happy, carefree life all alone.

After this battle is over,
my body will leave this world together with the corpse of the Flame Alchemist.

SFX: SNAP

Page 10:
Mustang: Unacceptable.
I won't lose you, too.

What a messed up situation.

Letting a child anger me,
being lectured by my enemy.

Forcing you to act like you did.

Page 11:
Mustang: I'm such a fool.

Lower your gun, Lieutenant.

I apologize.

SFX: Slump

SFX: Kneel

Page 12:
Envy: No you're not.

What a load of crap.

What is this, a radio drama?
I feel like puking!

Are you humans always this emotional?
Listen to your instincts!

Colonel Mustang!
Scar tried to assassinate you, didn't he?

And you, short stuff!
Scar killed your friendís parents,
remember?!

Page 13:
Envy: And the East City girl who was turned into a chimera!
He killed her too!

And I myself pulled the trigger that started the Ishval war!
Hahahahaha!
You killed plenty of people during those years, Lieutenant Hawkeye!

Scar!
The man and woman responsible for slaughtering countless members of your race are right in front of you! Take this chance!

Ooh, what angry faces, hahaha! Keep it up! Hate, cry, kill, and be killed!
Wade through the mire of war!

Pathetic insects like you can't put aside your differences and work together!
Right, shrimp?

Page 14:
Envy: HAWKEYE!
MUSTANG!
SCAR!

...why...

WHY WHY WHY?!
DAMN YOU ALL!

Ed: Envy...
You...

Page 15:
Ed: You're envious of humans.

We're so much weaker than you homunculi, but
even when we're beaten,
battered,
confused,

and about to collapse...
Even when we know it's pointless,
We always stand back up.
And if we can't, our friends will lift us.

Page 16:
Ed: You'll never have that...
and its made you jealous of us.

SFX: Gasp

Envy: Hngh-
SFX: Shake shake shake

Ed: Ah-
Hey, knock it off!

SFX: Writhe writhe
Bubbles: Mmph-
Rrrgh-

Page 17:
Ed: Cut it out, dumbass, or I'll-

SFX: Chomp
Ed: Ow!

SFX: Slip

SFX: plop

Envy: Heh...
Heheh...

Page 18:
Hawkeye: Persistent little-
Scar: Wait.

He doesn't have much longer.

SFX: Squirm squirm
Bubbles: Haah

Envy: Heh
heheh...

How humiliating...
Reduced to this pathetic form...

Page 19:
Envy: With you humans...
you pieces of .... mocking me...

SFX: Slump

Envy: And worst of all,
the lowest, most disgusting one of you...

Page 20:
Envy: That f*!@ing kid, is the one who understands how I feel!
It's the ultimate insult...
SFX: Splurk

Splsh splsh
SNAP

Page 21:
Envy: Haha...
SFX: Shake
Envy: How much further will that simplistic outlook take you?
Good luck.

SFX: SPLASH

SLPLAP

SFX: Sssha ssshaa

Envy: Bye bye,

Ed...ward...
Elric...

Page 22:
SFX: Shaaaaa

Mustang: Suicide...

You cruel bastard...

Page 23:
SFX: CRACK

Soldiers: Aah-
He's healing!
What a monster...

SoldierA: C-Squad! What's this hole?!
SoldierC: A-Squad!

Thank god you're here! Help us!
SoldierA: Help you?
We're here to terminate Major General Armstrong.

What's happened here?
Everyone on this floor's been bludgeoned to death-

Page 24:
SoliderA: The General!
Olivier: Good timing!

C-Squad and A-Squad, you're under my command!
SoliderA: Buh-Wha?
SoliderC: Just do what she says!

SoldierA: Waagh!
What the crap is this?!

Alex: Everyone duck!

SFX: WHUP

Page 25:
Bubble: HRGH!
SFX: VWOOM

SFX: GAAH
Sold: WAAAAAH

SFX: Slice

Olivier: Bullets don't have any affect on them!
Destroy the crown of their heads!
At the very least, fewer of us will eaten alive.

Page 26:
Olivier: Everyone pair up and stop at least one!
Show me what you Central maggots can do!

SoldierS: Y-
Yes ma'am!

SFX: Smack smack smack

Sloth: UMM
HMM.
WHAT
WAS I-

OH
I REMEMBER.
THE WOMAN GENERAL.

TOO MUCH EF-
SFX: Clink

SFX: Squeeze

Page 27:
SFX: Shake shake

Alex: Stay down!

Sloth: MOVE.

Alex: Fighting with one arm isn't going well!

Page 28:
S: Major!
S2: Anyone here know how to fix a dislocated arm?!
S3: We did, but he just got his neck bitten off!

SFX: WHUD

WHAM

S: He's gonna get pounded to death!
S2: General!
Olivier: Forget him!

My brother's trained well enough to survive a few love-taps!

Page 29:
SLOTH: TOO MUCH
EFFORT.
YOU DIE
NOW.

S1: MAJ-

Page 30:
SFX: CRUNCH

Alex: My shoulder's...
FIXED!

Page 31:
Good!
Very good!

Page 32:
Alex: NNGH!

ORAAA!

Behold what happens when my chiseled body combines with my inspirational alchemy!
Excellent and Elegant! [H: Yes, he says it in english.]

Page 33:
S: The Armstrong manor is empty!
There isn't so much as a mouse in here!

.......

They even had tanks hoarded in here?

Page 34:
SFX: KABOOM

S1: Ack-

S2: This is the main gate, top floor!
Get me central command!
We've got what appears to be a Briggs tank
firing on us!

Central command?!
This is the main gate!

Commander: Stop screaming!
We can see it from here!

Page 35:
Commander: Everyone!
Return fire!

Radio: We haven't finished evacuating the civilians yet!
Commander: If we wait, we'll lose the main gate!

I'll take responsibility!
Main gate artillery command-

SFX: BOOM

Page 36:
Buccaneer: "Aim at the residential areas?"
THAT'S what you're about to say.

Page 37:
Commander: That weapon...you're from Briggs!
How did you-

Briggs1: We've got a guy on our side that used to work in Central HQ with a sharp memory.
Fortunately for us, he remembered exactly where the ground commanders work.

Buccaneer: We've also got someone who dug us a quick tunnel from here to the residential area.
Commander: Who the hell could pull that off?!

Buccaneer: Heh...take a look for yourself.
Commander: W-Who?!
SFX: Clack clack clack clack

Izumi!: When someone asks "who" I am, I always say "a housewife."
That's the polite response...

Page 38:
Izumi!: But just for today, I feel like showing off a little.

I'm an ALCHEMIST!

White text: Watch out!
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DistantBlue
post May 11 2009, 03:21 PM
Post #427


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.....hmm.

I was actually kind of disappointed in a couple of things.

1) The chapter was awfully short. (38 pages compared to 44-46 last month)

2) Envy's death....doesn't make sense. He's never shown those feelings of envy towards humans, up til now. Not saying it wasn't appropriate, I just mean there wasn't any evidence supporting his feelings.

3) I felt like there was this empty hole. In the chapter. I don't know. Maybe I have to reread it. Maybe it's because my dog died today and I'm still upset about it. (Is it cruel and heartless to read a manga chapter two hours after your dog dies? I loved that thing to death....)


What I liked:

1) The Royai. Definitely. Can't even describe it.


But - there was that one line that was translated a bit differently. In the one by that mangahelpers dude, he made it seem like she would shoot him and then kill herself. Tombow's was more of a tattoo reference that was more of Hawkeye killing herself for the benefit of everyone, not out of grief for the Colonel.



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QUOTE (Alzea @ Jul 16 2009, 07:49 AM) *
DistantBlue, I just can see this, demotivational poster:
QUOTE
Observation skillzShe haz them

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Tombow
post May 11 2009, 03:22 PM
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Thank you, HisshouBuraiKen!! biggrin.gif


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penguintruth
post May 11 2009, 03:55 PM
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Some thoughts on the new chapter:

- Calming Roy - I'm pretty satisfied with how this went down. Riza was putting it all on the line to protect the honor and integrity of the person most important to her, that she admired. And Edward was aware of this need, too, since he too respects the colonel and his wishes to lead the nation (though I doubt him being the Fuhrer will ever truly come to fruition). Though it's laughable that Arakawa is even pretending like Scar is still a relevant character (just kill him, already), but he did have a point.

- Envy's Suicide - I'm sort of on the fence about this. Envy was such a vicious enemy, seeing him reduced to this pathetic state is sort of fitting, but on the other hand, sort of disappointing in a way. I see where Arakawa was going with how he was envious of human beings' strength despite their weakness, but this scene should have played out chapters ago after Marcoh defeated him, with Envy humiliated by the man who he'd mocked for his weakness. This scene in the chapter felt like it was a tad too melodramatic.

- Armstrong versus Sloth - Brutal. Just brutal. And awesome. This is something I cannot wait to be animated. It's amazing. I usually only save a few pages of a chapter onto my computer, and I saved nearly every page of this battle. This is the real highlight of the chapter.

- Central Seige - You have to admire Olivia Armstrong and the others' plan, especially considering Olivia took over the Armstrong house just to fill it with tanks and stuff for the take over. If you ask me, she's the one who deserves to be the new leader of the country.

Izumi's back! Oh god, next chapter NOW, please!

A better chapter than the last one, but it really didn't get great until that Envy melodrama was over. Hopefully none of the other homunuculi go out like that. That was more embarassing than him being a dragon sacrificed by Nazis.


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ShadowCat17
post May 11 2009, 04:11 PM
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I loved the Mustang/Envy resolution, to me it seemed perfectly fitting. Riza was pretty hardcore threatening to commit suicide if she had to kill Roy, which was amazing. I also liked the role reversal with Ed and Mustang - remember way back after Nina died when Ed was a wreck, Mustang reminded Ed of his reason for becoming a state alchemist; and this time Ed reminds Roy not to lose track of his purpose.
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RoyxRizaFan
post May 11 2009, 04:17 PM
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I just read this on onemanga, and it's even more bad @ss (rather than flipping back anf forth between tranlations and scans)

The RoyAi was even better this time around, but I noticed the same thing as DistantBlue (I'm sooo sorry about your dog *glomps*), that she didn't mention the tatoo...?

Envy's suicide, I don't have a problem with it but usually I'm going "OMG MINDBLOWN!" over FMA and I was just like, "Okay, that kinda makes sense" with this one. It technically fits him, though, and it made a little more sense now that I've read the chapter.

And the Armstrongs were even more bad @ss. It seems Olivia has a litt;le more respect for him, so after the battle I think they'll still do their usual bickering but perhaps in a less sinister way...? Hopefully? I was surprised she stuck up for him saying that he was well trained when she always says he's a weak coward!


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flamexhawk
post May 11 2009, 04:24 PM
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I think the thing about her tattoo is, in the image, it shows her back, similar to chap. 94 when Riza says "We'll handle this. If not, then..." The latter line shows Mustang's back, signaling that if they can't handle it then she'd shoot him. In a similar sense, her line of committing suicide is not only a hint out of grief (since she says she doesn't want to face the world alone) and loyalty, but, since it's said with her back being shown, it's also spoken without words that she would not only kill herself because of grief and loyalty but because of her tattoo.

I believe that, as long as he's alive, she'll bear it for him.

And I love this chapter. <3

And IZUMI.
She looks healthy! :3


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Haineko
post May 11 2009, 04:31 PM
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Thanks for the translation, Hisshouburaiken! Wow, another great and intense chapter! biggrin.gif

I'm so glad Riza was able to snap him out of his rage. Deep down, Mustang truly loves and cares about the people who are important to him, and while his anger temporarily blinded him, he was able to realize that what he was doing wasn't for the good of the country and wasn't what Hughes would've wanted. It just goes to show how much Riza means to him that was she was able to remind him of what was at stake. I will be anxiously awaiting to see this scene animated. There was just so much emotion in those panels, it's unbelievable.

On Envy's death (warning, some ramblings follow):

It was entirely fitting. While it may seem anticlimactic, it makes perfect sense in the context of Arakawa's worldview and various themes painted in the manga. One of those major themes is that self-sacrifice or choosing to die isn't heroic at all: it's selfish and cowardly. Back when Ed tried to sacrifice himself for Al during Scar's attack, Al later berated him and told him that he couldn't forgive Ed for throwing away all the possibilities that comes with being alive. In later chapters, the idea of "self-sacrifice is just self-indulgence" is repeated. Overall, Arakawa seems to be saying that choosing to live is much harder than choosing to die because you have to struggle and face the odds against you, but is the only right thing to do in order to help make the world a better place. It therefore makes sense that the moment Roy hears Riza say that she'd kill herself if she had to pull the trigger on him, he realizes that he's heading down the wrong path. Riza is the one who makes Roy see what he's become, but Roy is also in effect saying "unacceptable" to the idea of death and hatred when both of them can continue to live and help others with their lives.

Another related theme is the problem of hatred: is revenge the answer? Arakawa definitively says no to this, because as she shows through Scar and Winry and various other characters, revenge only spawns more revenge and hatred. Lust's observation in the very beginning of the manga that "hatred begets hatred" and that "humans never learn, do they?" is very accurate here. The homunculi of FMA represent the very worst in all humans, hence why their names are derived from the Seven Deadly Sins. Their goal is to try to use the worst characteristics and failings of humans, their capacity for hatred and violence, to reach their ultimate goal. The only way to defeat them is to overcome these basic failings in all humans. Envy and it seems most of the homunculi understand humans' ability to hate each other, but what they don't understand is their ability to love and persevere against hatred as well. It's this latter ability that is the only thing that can stop the Homunculi's goals.

When Ed realizes that Envy is envious of this ability to persevere against the odds and overcome hatred, it's the final nail in the coffin (no pun intended) for Envy. He was already disturbed by the fact that Scar and Mustang had seemed to overcome their mutual hatred, and that Ed had no desire to kill him either. When no one gave in to his perturbations, Envy was in effect already defeated. The fact that Envy opts to take his own life rather than face his humiliation and face a new unfathomable reality where humans can actually overcome their weaknesses is fitting: suicide is, after all, the lowest and most pitiful death in Arakawa's world.

Anyways, loved this chapter. Arakawa never ceases to amaze me smile.gif
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Sword Alchemist
post May 11 2009, 05:00 PM
Post #434


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I'm glad Envy is finally gone for good and that Roy and his crew are alright.

I'm hoping that Arakawa will consider giving Denny and Maria their own chapter when they are finally reunited. Or at least give them half a chapter. Hopefully Arakawa just doesn't do a rush job with the scene.
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Gimpyhair
post May 11 2009, 05:08 PM
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A little something I did not realised before: Scar and Edward totally ditched Mei chan and the chimeras (Darius, Zanpano and Jelso I think?), haha! Seriously, I don't think we are going to see Edward, Roy, Riza and Scar for the next chapter.

I much prefered this death for Envy, instead of just someone killing him. But, I think I would have liked better if Pride would have eaten him... I'm still waiting for a Pride-Riza reunion, if there's going to be one.


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