HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Chapter 75 "Regular" Discussion Thread For First Time Readers (and Others), No future chapter spoilers here, please. :)
TheRainbowConnec...
post Sep 12 2007, 02:17 PM
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Thanks, Tombow and HisshouBuraiKen for your super-prompt translations!

All of us non-Japanese readers thank you! biggrin.gif
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ehxhfdl14
post Sep 12 2007, 03:05 PM
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Well, now there's Hoho's background...along with Father. So Father was the homunculus in the bottle, after all...


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Sensenic
post Sep 12 2007, 03:30 PM
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Argh, I can't get over this feeling of rushedness... That everything is suddenly going too fast now... I think, for instance, this Flashback should have had its own saga and appear when it would be told by hohenheim to their children at some point, just like the Elrics' and the Ishval FBs were.

I like love this manga, but I'm kinda.... "scared" it may get too rushed, too efectist... Dunno how to put it better u.u

QUOTE(HisshouBuraiKen @ Sep 12 2007, 09:55 PM) *
QUOTE(*Yukiko @ Sep 12 2007, 03:32 PM) *
Hoho describes himself as "a philosopher's stone in a human body that is called Van Hoenheim"... but he was originally human first, so why does he call himself the stone? His body was literally turned into a stone and is not like the homunculi who have a stone as their center? Both Father and Hoho never seem to die when killed, unlike the other homunculi who die but then regenerate... so the form of the philosopher's stone inside gives them different abilities.


I'd say it's an emotional thing. He doesn't SEE himself as a human any more, after how long he's lived and what he's been through. I mean, the guy constantly calls himself a monster. I think he feels like he's lost his humanity.


Third that (Tombow did the "seconding" happy.gifU ).


QUOTE(ehxhfdl14 @ Sep 13 2007, 12:05 AM) *
Well, now there's Hoho's background...along with Father. So Father was the homunculus in the bottle, after all...


Yup... And here I was convinced he was Pride all along...
Gotta admit their manner of speech WAS different, though... And I certainly prefer this version to the "Father was a second Hohenheim that got created from him" or "The Slave was Father all along."

I want to know how "The Hommunculus" was made too!
AND! What went wrong with his plans.... As obviously, while Hoho has remained intact, it is now more obvious, if it wasn't enough before, that Father DOES age, while they should both be the same (a human body with PS on them). Of course, Father's body was made, while Hoho's was already there (so Hoho's was the body that, according to Ed, was "human-transmuted into itself")

So interesting!

Gotta love how the names Hoho kept shouting were the same he was begging their pardons from for using them a few chapters ago. (I think happy.gifU)


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Tombow
post Sep 12 2007, 03:56 PM
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@Sensenic - I'm soo with you about the felling of being "rushed."
Not that Arakawa-sensei skimped on any manga quality by doing so.
Far from it. This chapter comes at you with like a ton of bricks, and I'm totally overwhelmed reading those scenes of Xerxes being destroyed.
But, yeah, it feels like I have read 5 chapters' worth of material in one chapter. mellow.gif

Anyhow.. I'm going to take a break and go eat something.
I will be back later tonight and continue with the page-by-page translations. ^^


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Causmicfire
post Sep 12 2007, 04:02 PM
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Thanks Tombow and HisshouBuraiKen for translations, now I can focus on my homework assignment that's due tomorrow, instead of continually wondering what's going on in chapter 75.


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TheRainbowConnec...
post Sep 12 2007, 05:50 PM
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Also, I'm not one for squeeing, but damn. Young adult Hoho is smokin'. It's like a more built-up Ed...but normal height! XD Also, robes are damn sexy.

All around the world, FMA fanartists rejoice for finally getting some older models for Ed!

Semi-thoughtful thought before I go home from work: It's interesting to note that Father in this chapter was very disdainful of family and the need for companionship. However, he does end up keeping a "family" of sorts--a family of Homunculi. (He even refers to Gluttony as his "son", although its entirely plausible that he says it in a more creator-creation relationship.)
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Animeoldtimer
post Sep 12 2007, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE(Tombow @ Sep 12 2007, 06:56 PM) *
@Sensenic - I'm soo with you about the felling of being "rushed."
Not that Arakawa-sensei skimped on any manga quality by doing so.
Far from it. This chapter comes at you with like a ton of bricks, and I'm totally overwhelmed reading those scenes of Xerxes being destroyed.



I was thinking about this and how I said earlier that I hope there won't be three chapters on Xerxes. I suppose Arakawa may have been thinking the same thing and decided to condense it a bit.

I'm glad we got to hear about Hoho's background. It's very important. In HisshouBuraiKen's translation (thank you btw smile.gif ) I noticed Hoho says this to Izumi:

"As the flesh you lost is a symbolizes your sin, I can't return it..."

I suppose this could mean that Ed cannot get his arm and leg back. hmmmm...

As for Al though his sin was no worse than Ed's so he shouldn't have lost his whole body. Thus his loss could be argued was not a result of his sin or it could be perhaps a temporary punishment for his sin.


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"Funny how you can say something in your head and it sounds fine... "--The Doctor
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Tombow
post Sep 12 2007, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(Animeoldtimer @ Sep 12 2007, 10:42 PM) *
... Hoho says this to Izumi:
"As the flesh you lost is a symbolizes your sin, I can't return it..."

I suppose this could mean that Ed cannot get his arm and leg back. hmmmm...

As for Al though his sin was no worse than Ed's so he shouldn't have lost his whole body. Thus his loss could be argued was not a result of his sin or it could be perhaps a temporary punishment for his sin.

@Animeoldtimer - I was reading the raw and had the same thought... like, O_o Ed is in trouble!! Yeah, if that's true, Ed should forget about getting his arm and leg back.
As for Al, I hope your theory will apply and he will get his body back.

BTW, I'm back for more translations. ^^


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AA battery
post Sep 12 2007, 09:19 PM
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holy....omfg o_o

done.

so... how the hell did the philosopher stone give birth to Ed and Al is one of my biggest question.................................. so if Hoho-papa is a stone himself, does it mean Ed and Al might have a little bit of the stone in them too? o.o


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Sensenic
post Sep 13 2007, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE(TheRainbowConnection @ Sep 13 2007, 02:50 AM) *
Semi-thoughtful thought before I go home from work: It's interesting to note that Father in this chapter was very disdainful of family and the need for companionship. However, he does end up keeping a "family" of sorts--a family of Homunculi. (He even refers to Gluttony as his "son", although its entirely plausible that he says it in a more creator-creation relationship.)


And a family that loves him, for that matter (except the rebel child that comes out once in a while, see Greed wink.gif ). Nice find. happy.gif

After seeing this chapter, how Daddy was the Original Thing, how Pride (the First Hommunculus, according to himself) is very similar to "what" The Hommunculus was, how the current hommunculi's Stones and the souls come from inside Father...
I think it's quite evident what the current hommunculi are: Fragments of the original. No?
He has just taken some parts of his own PS and several personality traits of his (his pride, gluttony, greed, wrath...) and given them an independent body to move around and do his bidding.

Which is ironic, because so far the kanji used to refer to the hommunculi were "Jinzouningen" (same as the cyborgs from Dragon Ball), which literally mean "human-made human" happy.gif (if I'm not mistaken) when in fact they were not. They were made by a hommunculus like themselves.


I'd like to point out too that Father's left eye becomes for a while the famous reptilian hommunculian eye.
It's always the left one! Bradley has his right eye human and his left eye hommunculus too (well, he has the ouroboros in there instead of the usual one, but I bet if his mark hadn't ended up there, it would be), and whenever we see one of Lingreed's eyes open, it's the left one if the hommunculus is in control and the right -human- one when Ling is (how I want to see him with both eyes open to see if my theory is right. Come on Lingy! Open them! >.< )
Some kind of symbolism here? Or just a coherence factor?

QUOTE(AA battery @ Sep 13 2007, 06:19 AM) *
so... how the hell did the philosopher stone give birth to Ed and Al is one of my biggest question.................................. so if Hoho-papa is a stone himself, does it mean Ed and Al might have a little bit of the stone in them too? o.o


I think Hoho's body is still more human than what he wants to believe/he insists. After all, it was transmuted into itself, according to Ed.
It's just that he now has all those souls in the red liquid form (AKA PS) in there. Maybe in the place of his blood (creepy ph34r.gif ).
If it was like that, it's just logical it kept its reproductive capabilities, with Ed and Al being normal humans.

Then again, maybe it's a whole other story. But that's what I like to believe for the time being. happy.gif

EDIT: for great justice! Or a better redaction at least!


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Tombow
post Sep 13 2007, 01:22 AM
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I agree with Sensenic on both accounts, about Homunculi being the fragments of the original, and about how Hoho can still make children. ^^


and, some other stuff just noticed...

This is from Chapter 73, page 44, when Father was making human selections.
Attached File  Chapter73Page44.JPG ( 148.13K ) Number of downloads: 36


It resembles these?? (I believe the bottom one is the transmutation circle for making the Philosopher's Stone, and the middle one is just marking the Five points on the map that correspond to the circle on the bottom, so that they can burn down corresponding towns, right?)
Attached File  Chapter_5Page11.JPG ( 73.68K ) Number of downloads: 31

Attached File  Chapter75Page13.JPG ( 122.74K ) Number of downloads: 30


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Sensenic
post Sep 13 2007, 01:34 AM
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QUOTE(Tombow @ Sep 13 2007, 10:22 AM) *
I agree with Sensenic on both accounts, about Homunculi being the fragments of the original, and about how Hoho can still make children. ^^


Yey! ( n_n)--b

QUOTE(Tombow @ Sep 13 2007, 10:22 AM) *
and, some other stuff just noticed...

This is from Chapter 73, page 44, when Father was making human selections.
Attached File  Chapter73Page44.JPG ( 148.13K ) Number of downloads: 36


It resembles these?? (I believe the bottom one is the transmutation circle for making the Philosopher's Stone, and the middle one is just marking the Five points on the map that correspond to the circle on the bottom, right?)
Attached File  Chapter_5Page11.JPG ( 73.68K ) Number of downloads: 31

Attached File  Chapter75Page13.JPG ( 122.74K ) Number of downloads: 30


Well, of course it does. It's been known for quite some time (and shown specifically in chapter 67, "The Shape of this country"), that whatever Father's doing, they're making a similar Transmutation Circle with the whole of Amestris as they did with Xerxes.
The differences are that this time the circle is WAAAAY bigger (Xerxes apparently were only a few towns, as the slaves knew of the people from the burnt village, whereas Amestris is one big country), a little more complex (it has another smaller pentagon inside) and, of course, the five Doors-knowing Human Sacrifices, whose role is still unknown.


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Tombow
post Sep 13 2007, 02:02 AM
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^ So, maybe this time they need not just destroying the cities in place of towns like the case in Xerxes (because it's in much bigger scale,) in addition, those Five people are maybe being selected for the second set of Five points on the Pentagon...??

Attached File  chapter_67Page18.JPG ( 34.26K ) Number of downloads: 22


And, yeah, we still don't know what Father is planning for these five people, but we know now that Izumi is definitely being targeted as one of them, and I don't like it. I hope she would get away... And, it is still not clear why Arakawa-sensei made Hoho and Isumi/Sig couple meet in this chapter. I wonder what is the meaning of this... unsure.gif

And, if Xerxes was the small scale, and it looks this bad and horrifying, I hope Father would never succeed with his plan for Amestris. mellow.gif

Oh, and more small details..

Souls of these people...
Attached File  chapter75Page23b.JPG ( 134.49K ) Number of downloads: 29

I guess those were people he knew.

Those souls are being called later here.. the same chapter 67 where we found out that Amestris being the transmutation circle.
Attached File  Chapter67Page35B.JPG ( 142.41K ) Number of downloads: 31



Oh, and this whole Xerxes arc/sequences started with Father sleeping and dreaming, and coming out with Hoho waking up from his sleep/dream.. kind of interesting. ^^

So much information.. so much to think about. I'm being totally overwhelmed by this chapter!! ^^


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AA battery
post Sep 13 2007, 05:01 AM
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I think it's about time to guess how many chapters FMA would end up with.

*hands up* Surely under 100 chapters, and since Arakawa-sensei is cool, I think she'll be able to land on the exactly 100 chapters mark XD so, 2 years to go?


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HisshouBuraiKen
post Sep 13 2007, 05:28 AM
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QUOTE(Tombow @ Sep 13 2007, 04:22 AM) *
I agree with Sensenic on both accounts, about Homunculi being the fragments of the original, and about how Hoho can still make children. ^^


Same here, and you know why? I dunno how I overlooked this until now, but for Father/Homunculus, they don't use the "Human-Made-Human-Being" kanji with "Homunculus" as the furigana like they do with the others. They just use katakana. Homunculus was his name. Which indicates that even Pride doesn't know of Father's origins, as he claims to be the first/original Homunculus.
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