HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
full metal alchemist
full metal alchemist
 



Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Symbols & Symbolisms You See In FMA: Flamel, Ouroboros, And Whatnot, Designated thread for everyone to post what you find out on Wikipedia
BakaOnna
post Nov 12 2005, 11:10 PM
Post #1


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: 10-November 04
Member No.: 2,152



I'll just copy my post from the other forum I posted in.

I realized that there was a lot more symbolism in FMA then I thought. I knew there was a lot of symbolism when I first watched it. There was the whole idea of humoculus and being named after the seven deadly sins. The idea of the deadly sins were used in Dante Aligieri's Divine Comedy, and Dante is the person controlling the homunculus.

In addition, a lot of the symbols used in the series are real symbols used, like the snake and cross or the Ouroboros, which is the what I'm mainly focusing on.

So I was browsing through curious articles are Wikipedia when I came across this in the Ouroboros article.

QUOTE ("Wikipedia")
"Homunculi represent the seven deadly sins in the series and which were created by various alchemists in the attempt to bring humans back to life. This reflects an outstanding similiarity to Jung's belief of Ouroboros as an archetype of Death & Rebirth, as the Homunculi themselves are reborn humans made by alchemists. It is also interesting to note that Homunculi have a tendency to come back to life after being killed, and furthermore bring about their own demise, thus a snake biting its own tail and recreating themselves. The tatoo itself has some special abilities as well when touched by an alchemist. On a related subject, all alchemists in the series use Alchemy arrays which are circular designs (again circulating power as a tenet of both the symbol of Ouroboros and Alchemy itself within the series). Some alchemists however, have the ability to clap their hands together thus forming a circle with their body and arms, once again manifesting the power of Alchemy through circulating power." (Collective Essays on Archetypes of Modern Culture)

The Fullmetal Alchemist ouroborus contains another symbol within the circle. The symbol, in alchemy, is the seal of solomon. While the symbol has other obvious meanings, in the context of alchemy it represents the union of the fire symbol (up pointing triangle) and the water symbol (down pointing triangle). In alchemy the union of elements in opposition is symbolic of both transmutation and ultimately the quest for the Philosopher's stone.
Fullmetal Alchemist Ouroborus
Fullmetal Alchemist Ouroborus

In Fullmetal Alchemist, several characters adopt the symbol of a snake fixed on a cross. That symbol can be taken as the opposite of the Ouroboros. The winged snake on the cross representing the fixation of the volatile. As the Oroborus represents the cycle of birth and death, the snake on the cross represents fixed continuing life.


Wow, I've never noticed it before until now. The ouroboros symbol representing Death & Rebirth, while contrary, the snake and cross symbol representing continuing life. Plus the whole human transmutation thing forming the creation of the homunculus.

And contrary to most beliefs, alchemy isn't only the transmutation of metals into gold. It's also the transmutation of a person's soul and the spiriual transformation of the self.

Damn, I sound like my English teacher with this post.


--------------------
IPB Image
Beware of the Killer Lolis!!!

Currently watching: Utawarerumono, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Fate/Stay Night, Jyu Oh Sei, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Ouran High School Host Club, Bleach
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Molecular Alchem...
post Nov 13 2005, 12:30 PM
Post #2


Brigadier General
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,353
Joined: 28-October 05
From: The Court of Pure Souls
Member No.: 24,926
Gender: Female



To be honest, I kinda knew all that stuff already (and a bit more..hehehe). XD But if you didn't I guess Wikapedia's a good place to start to look for information on the background of the story. tongue.gif By he way...that "Winged serpent on a cross" that is referred to above (with the crown above its head that is on the back of Ed's jacket) is something that Nicholas Flamel (the famous alchemist who was after the real philospher's stone) drew in his notebooks. His notebooks also have pictures of o two-headed serpent, drawn in the same manor as the serpent that the FMA artists used to construct the Orboborus, which would imply that array was borroy from Flammel as well. The show has alot more history/symbolism than this...ya just need to take the time to delve more deeply than Wikapedia... smile.gif


--------------------


Proud Member of the Anti-Shou Movement
Honorable Vice-Captain of the Anti-Inoue Squad
BLEACH FANS UNITE!!!--new manga-based arc starts at epi 109!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BakaOnna
post Nov 14 2005, 02:50 PM
Post #3


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: 10-November 04
Member No.: 2,152



QUOTE(Molecular Alchemist @ Nov 13 2005, 12:30 PM) [snapback]313893[/snapback]

To be honest, I kinda knew all that stuff already (and a bit more..hehehe). XD But if you didn't I guess Wikapedia's a good place to start to look for information on the background of the story. tongue.gif By he way...that "Winged serpent on a cross" that is referred to above (with the crown above its head that is on the back of Ed's jacket) is something that Nicholas Flamel (the famous alchemist who was after the real philospher's stone) drew in his notebooks. His notebooks also have pictures of o two-headed serpent, drawn in the same manor as the serpent that the FMA artists used to construct the Orboborus, which would imply that array was borroy from Flammel as well. The show has alot more history/symbolism than this...ya just need to take the time to delve more deeply than Wikapedia... smile.gif


Yea, I knew that. Those symbols were also enscribed onto Flamel's tombstones.

And I love wikipedia. What's kinda bad is that they don't actually mention all the symbolism used in the FMA related articles. You have to fish around and search for things on a topic relavant to the series. But that just makes wikipedia more fun. smile.gif I sound like a dork.


--------------------
IPB Image
Beware of the Killer Lolis!!!

Currently watching: Utawarerumono, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Fate/Stay Night, Jyu Oh Sei, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Ouran High School Host Club, Bleach
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
EdElricsGal93
post Nov 15 2005, 02:49 AM
Post #4


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 9-November 05
From: my mommy's womb
Member No.: 26,002
Gender: Male



There's a mention of Fullmetal Alchemist on Wikipedia? ohmy.gif I worship that place now.

Indeed, FMA contains much symbolism, proving anime really can be rather complex and thought-provoking. For example, why is Ed short? And why is he so sensitive about that? There must be a deeper meaning than what seems on the surface. Has anyone realized that Napoleon, the great French leader, was also short? And that he was also sensitive about his height that he made his painters picture him a little taller? This can't be a coincidence, can it? And red represents valor, which is a characteristic of both Ed and Napoleon. I swear, the FMA creator must be hinting at her admiration towards Napoleon through Ed.

There's also Ed's braid, of course. See, a braid consists of three strands. Three. Trinity. In other words, Ed's braid really symbolizes the Trinity of Christianity: Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, which I don't find surprising, considering the prevalent religious theme throughout the whole series. Already the first episode displays a city in religious fervor. Then the seven deadly sins. And the use of the name Dante, the first person to influence our current images of Heaven and Hell. Then the constant mention of souls, in spite of Ed's claim to be an atheist. Man, what really is the FMA creator aiming at? Must do some more research now.


--------------------
Contrary to popular beliefs, I'm really a Male. Can't you tell?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
EdElricsGal93
post Nov 16 2005, 03:35 PM
Post #5


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 9-November 05
From: my mommy's womb
Member No.: 26,002
Gender: Male



Exactly! It's funny, I was thinking about this the other day. Didn't Ed try the human transmutation when he was eleven and Al ten? And in the TV series, isn't Ed fifteen, which means four years have passed since then? I find it eerie that the movie takes place two years after the end of the TV series, which makes a total of six years ever since the two brothers attempted the human transmutation. Six is as symbolic a number as seven is. Seven is God's number, and six is human's number. Triple six makes it Satan's number, but humans alone are already bad enough as they are. Al's action in cutting his hair probably signifies a departure from the Christianity theme that has flourished in the TV series. This is SO obvious. Undoubtedly the FMA creator has had some personal issues with religions and deities in general. While I'd like to elaborate some more, I myself haven't seen the movie and cannot do so, but I don't doubt that the movie will be even more interesting with its darker theme. Dum-dum-duum.


--------------------
Contrary to popular beliefs, I'm really a Male. Can't you tell?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
FrozenWater
post Nov 16 2005, 07:10 PM
Post #6


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 10-November 05
Member No.: 26,107



I personally think you're all reading too deep.
Ok i understand the symbolisim and all. Im big into metaphors.
Just, this show was made for fun. happy.gif Just dont dig too far in, or you'll only be making it knowledge.

I love you all. You know it. Dont get mad.


--------------------

You play with fire, you're gonna get burned. You play with frozen water,
It'll hurt much worse.


IPB Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Yugi Taylor
post Nov 17 2005, 10:06 AM
Post #7


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 7
Joined: 25-October 05
Member No.: 24,640



I find it interesting how much of the philosophy is in Fullmetal Alchemist...but truly, I'd rather enjoy it as a show. I do know that alot of Japanese Animation put alot of philosophy in their anime, take for example, Shin Seiki Evangelion (Neon Genesis Evangelion). There's alot of stuff in their that made my mind blow, but I just respect it and see it as a show. But hey, that's just my opinion ^^


--------------------
"Sanity is an illusion created by the insane."

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dingbat
post Nov 17 2005, 02:22 PM
Post #8


Alchemists
***

Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: 9-November 05
Member No.: 26,066



Duh. Of course none of us here in their right minds would consider these symbolisms as ZOMG I Juft Found A Perfect Source For My Essay! thing. The symbolisms just show that the creators had done their homework and they had graciously provided us with mini easter eggs to find throughout the series.

If you're talking about EVA, however, it's a different story entirely...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BakaOnna
post Nov 17 2005, 09:35 PM
Post #9


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: 10-November 04
Member No.: 2,152



I just thought it was interesting how that much research and, like others have mentioned, philosophy was used in creating this anime and manga. I'm sure many other anime series also has them too, but, I just find alchemy an interesting topic.


--------------------
IPB Image
Beware of the Killer Lolis!!!

Currently watching: Utawarerumono, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Fate/Stay Night, Jyu Oh Sei, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Ouran High School Host Club, Bleach
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Krazy one
post Nov 19 2005, 12:14 AM
Post #10


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 18-November 05
From: Devil's Nest
Member No.: 26,610
Gender: Not Telling



laugh.gif Uhh Ever noticed the Cities represent real life places and their Alchemy?
Central = Europe (Search for a way to create Gold during the Reinassance and the Scientific Revolution, they were also tried and considered heretics by the Catholic Church.) Central city seems to be the center of the commerce and wealth in Aemistris.

Xing = China (During the Qin Dynasty an Emperor by the name of Shi Huan Di searched for the Elixir of Life, after that many philosophers and emperors also searched for the Universal Panacea? Or cure to everything. Remember, China developed early medicine and Xing uses Medicine based Alchemy xD)

Ishbal = Middle East, how they prospered during the time of the Caliphs, Early beliefs rooted from the Middle East to Western Europe. They were thrown into chaos, as is many middle eastern countries today especially for their beliefs in Religion and its many sects.

Lior= A Middle Eastern Country that was thrown into chaos... today we got alot of those wink.gif

You can relate this to today's Current news on Global problems like the Westerner's influence in the Middle East etc. etc.


--------------------
"There's no such thing as no such thing." -Greed, Homunculus
IPB Image
IPB Image
I'm Greed's friend, are you?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hyuga Akurei
post Nov 19 2005, 02:53 PM
Post #11


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 25-October 05
Member No.: 24,656



Theophrastus Bombast von Hoenheim aka Paracelsus was the first person to create a homunculus, supposedly and in real life. He used hair, bones, semen, and various other ingredients to create it. the homunculus survived off human blood and other materials. (Hoenheim Elric).
His work was burned, for the most part, and it is not known whether the homunculus died or ran away from his master to pursue his own endevours. (Greed)
He was also a show off and bragged about his work, when other alchemists heard of this they burned down his lab out of jealousy. (Hoenheim's House)

I can't remember the name of the first person to create the Philosopher's Stone, but I do know that back then this element's glowing composition made everyone believe it was the real deal...till it failed to yeild results. What this person actually created was Phosphorus.

Glen Seaborg was the first man to transmute Gold into Lead with the use of a particle accelerator in 1980. The machine used too much power however, and produced such small quantities of gold that it was a wasted effort.

Spiritual Alchemy believes that the Philosopher's stone is an obvious object because this mythical stone exists withing everyone of us. (The manga, all the homunculi have Philosopher's stone Nuclei)

That's all I know for now so till I figure more out, I'll write.

P.S.
I'm making a FMA D20 game, if anyone would like to help, please PM me happy.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Antimony
post Nov 20 2005, 03:00 PM
Post #12


Alchemists
***

Group: Members
Posts: 263
Joined: 21-September 05
From: Somewhere in Ohio
Member No.: 23,225
Gender: Female



Lots of crosses appear in FMA, too, and everybody here knows what crosses mean, right? Besides the obvious places like churches and graveyards they also appear on characters' bodies. I'm not talking about the Serpent Cross that Ed, Al, and Izumi wear, though. I'm talking about Scar. The scar on his face is an X shape, basically the same thing as a tilted cross, and his clothes have crosses on them. His coat has one on the back and his pants have one on the left leg.

IPB Image
IPB Image

So what do all those crosses mean? Obviously Scar is not a Christian, but maybe they're meant to show us the viewing audience how he believes himself to be a Savior of mankind. He's trying to 'cleanse' the evil of the world by killing all State Alchemists who, in his mind or for real, are the ultimate sinners.

Yay for overanalysis!


--------------------
IPB Image

I've got a deviantART gallery! --> http://nanashi.deviantart.com/
I've got a fan art thread! --> http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/forums/...?showtopic=7090
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Martin Easth
post Jan 21 2006, 06:06 PM
Post #13


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 50
Joined: 31-July 05
Member No.: 18,507
Gender: Male



the symbolism in FMA is extremely developed and it is everywhere in the series so if you want you
can spend some 200-300 hours analysing all episodes in detail. I had thoughts about doing that but even if
I do it and write a long report on it, all people I know would only think that I copied it from the internet.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hyleaus
post Mar 22 2006, 05:56 AM
Post #14


Citizen
*

Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 20-March 06
From: Limites temporis spatiique
Member No.: 33,302
Gender: Not Telling



QUOTE(Martin Easth @ Jan 21 2006, 07:51 PM) [snapback]341049[/snapback]

the symbolism in FMA is extremely developed and it is everywhere in the series so if you want you
can spend some 200-300 hours analyzing all episodes in detail. I had thoughts about doing that but even if
I do it and write a long report on it, all people I know would only think that I copied it from the internet.


I think that you can look at the series as using 'symbolism;' however, I don't think that such is the creators' intention. Often in Japanese epic plots whether it be anime or video game. Probably what happened is that someone had an idea, and they wanted to do a bit to make the show seem somewhat more interesting and so add some research to it. The idea was probably alchemy and creating life... well, what are the downfalls to doing this: homunculi; what are common criticisms of alchemy i.e. witchcraft... Religion... reference to the middeast where religion is run amok.

As far as video games go, anyone who's read a lick of mythology can tell you that name and concept borrowing is everywhere. Whether it be from the Semites: Gilgamesh, or from the Greeks: C(k)eberus. I'm not too as knowledgeable on Eastern mythology, maybe someone can help here. Also, I think that Norse mythology is sadly underrepresented. Upon review, I can think of only one reference: In The Legend of Zelda Link's horse Epona shares her name with the Norse god of Horses.

I really enjoy the fact that this Japanese 'borrowing' tradition goes on. It's fun to know where names come from, but I don't think that the names are necessarily symbolically motivated. I think that they are really just looking for cool names a lot of the time. I can't tell you how many times I've searched for mythological names when I play RPG's and the like. It makes things a bit more interesting.

Errare est humanum

Hyleaus


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Popogeejo
post Mar 22 2006, 06:09 AM
Post #15


Master Alchemist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 6,914
Joined: 18-February 06
From: Wrapped in my own Ego
Member No.: 31,420
Gender: Male



QUOTE(Antimony @ Nov 20 2005, 09:45 PM) [snapback]317582[/snapback]

Lots of crosses appear in FMA, too, and everybody here knows what crosses mean, right? Besides the obvious places like churches and graveyards they also appear on characters' bodies. I'm not talking about the Serpent Cross that Ed, Al, and Izumi wear, though. I'm talking about Scar. The scar on his face is an X shape, basically the same thing as a tilted cross, and his clothes have crosses on them. His coat has one on the back and his pants have one on the left leg.

IPB Image
IPB Image

So what do all those crosses mean? Obviously Scar is not a Christian, but maybe they're meant to show us the viewing audience how he believes himself to be a Savior of mankind. He's trying to 'cleanse' the evil of the world by killing all State Alchemists who, in his mind or for real, are the ultimate sinners.

Yay for overanalysis!


Also in the Manga the first gReed we meet was pinned on a cross.


--------------------

>Click the picture for me gushing over over Summer Wars shenanigans!<
The various works of FKMT are something you should read
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th July 2016 - 03:00 AM



Copyright 2003-2004 PhoenixNetworks, LLC. All rights reserved.
Copyright Notice. Privacy policy. Acceptable Use Policy. Terms of Service.
Page Generation Time: 0.0655 seconds.
Currently Selected Stylesheet: css/default.css