HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Hawkeye X Roy: The Royai Thread, For Roy, Riza, and Royai fans, and more!!
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SneakyRuler
post Nov 10 2009, 08:23 AM
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Thanks, Turdaewen. Even though I'm not familiar with Arakawa sensei's other works, I can see from where you are going, it's exactly from where I am going as well. Just couldn't put it in words so accurately.
It's just I can't seem to find any evidence against the 'other side'.

It's the subtlety of their acting towards each other what makes me like the pairing. I was very, very happy that after what happened in chapter 39, Roy didn't start 'Oh, you can't live without me? that's so sweet... I love you as well' but instead just scolded her for believing the enemy and giving up. That's what makes FMA different from other mangas I'd say.

OK, now I stop.
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jacksparrow589
post Nov 10 2009, 09:00 AM
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All right, really quickly, since I need to leave for class soon:

I was trying to write Royai a couple years ago, and was searching for the perfect quote. The one I decided on: "Love is giving someone the chance to destroy you, and trusting them not to."

I thought it fit perfectly.

*dashes off to class*


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FMAobsessed
post Nov 10 2009, 09:59 AM
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Isn't it possible for Roy and Riza to love each other and be friends?

They have a history together and have been through so much together, that they do need each other.

About the hug thing. I believe that the hug wasn't just "Oh my friend, you are safe." I do believe that he did hug her with relief. But if at the same time, he held onto her for several panels. Also Roy has been so careful about letting anyone see an emotional side to him. Especially the enemy. So I think that the fact that he held onto her in front of the enemy, while in a battle means something.
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FailToImpress
post Nov 10 2009, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE (Turdaewen @ Nov 10 2009, 02:47 PM) *
But people are right in one thing: it doesn't mean they ARE a couple. I just that it makes clear that they are in love with eachother, but not that they're together. There's a big difference between the two.

But, since there's no need for an ACTUAL relationship for it to become cannon, only that both are 'in love', I guess it does make them cannon beyond doubt.


Yeah, I don't deny that they love each other, I'm sure they do.
Personally I just think that because of the position they're in it might not necessarily be a romantic thing. There's romantic love and then there's platonic love, and I think people can forget that. *nods* smile.gif
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jacksparrow589
post Nov 10 2009, 10:47 AM
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Wow... I totally missed what Turdaewen said about the difference between being in love and being together. THAT really struck a chord with me. I had something else to say about this, but I forgot... sad.gif I do agree with FMAobsessed, though. It's clear that Roy cares about each and every one of his subordinates in some way, and they've ALL got a really deep trust going there, but to me, there's something special about that connection between Roy and Riza. FailToImpress, you bring up quite the valid point, though. (My head is spinning now. Talking about love is confusing sometimes!)

I realized in the middle of class that "destroy" should be more like "betray" in the quote I mentioned earlier. Between those two options, you could make quite the case for love in FMA.


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Michiyo-
post Nov 10 2009, 10:49 AM
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I just noticed something:

Roy is much taller than Riza in chapter 101! laugh.gif


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Nagareboshi
post Nov 10 2009, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE (Michiyo- @ Nov 10 2009, 12:49 PM) *
I just noticed something:

Roy is much taller than Riza in chapter 101! laugh.gif


I think the reason that he's taller than her in 101 is because she isn't standing up straight.


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FailToImpress
post Nov 10 2009, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (jacksparrow589 @ Nov 10 2009, 05:47 PM) *
FailToImpress, you bring up quite the valid point, though. (My head is spinning now. Talking about love is confusing sometimes!)


Love IS confusing, unfortunately. rolleyes.gif It never goes to plan and things are always more complicated than they seem.

Like I said before, 'often when people look out for each other as much as these two do, that can surpass the need for a romantic relationship'. The pair obviously need (and have) a great deal of trust between them, more than that of their other subordinates. Their relationship was built upon on that trust etc, and in that way it's very different because romantic relationships are built on attraction and the like. It just makes for a very different dynamic is all... A platonic relationship could work better in their instance, because as lots of us know.... romantic love makes you do stupid things. If you love someone romantically, it feels very different to a strong platonic relationship. (okay I'm rambling now, you get the idea lol tongue.gif )

That's not to say they don't fancy each other, let's face it, they probably do because who wouldn't lol laugh.gif

But yes.... very confusing indeed. There's no wrong or right answer here. smile.gif
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Miss MP
post Nov 10 2009, 12:13 PM
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QUOTE (SneakyRuler @ Nov 10 2009, 08:44 AM) *
. . .
Yes, she IS precious woman for Roy. But I refuse to take for a proof of their love just a fact that Dr. Goldtooth says she's Roy's lover. What does HE know? (OK, maybe I don't want to know...)

Though if an "outside" character can pick up on it despite how subtle the relationship and their connection is, I would say it's there and obvious with the context. Why would that outside character use /those/ words to describe something platonic? Hawkeye has made it incredibly clear of her stance with Roy; she'd follow him anywhere she could. Mustang has shown his devotion to his precious people before [particularly his reaction with Envy regarding Hughes]. The difference is, his relationship with Hughes is shown platonically, brotherly [except in fanon, of course], whereas Hawkeye not only has some of the overlapping "comraderie" qualities, but a romantic dimension has been attached through proxy context. Note that I'm not implying this romance leads into the stereotypical aspects of marriage, children; in fact I don't believe it will because that isn't present in their dynamic. Still, there's been a slow shift between Hawkeye and Mustang; it has been steadily revealed that there is not merely trust and comraderie and mere promises; there are moments of jealousy, flirting, and insinuations from outside characters. They are "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" seconds in time. I don't find it prudent to assume it was platonic unless there were subtle insinuations of a "sisterly" regard toward Hawkeye, or perhaps a "parent-child" dynamic, "best friends" dynamic, et cetera. There is no evidence of those. At most we can speculate it is merely comraderie; but then, I don't feel jealousy, flirting, and sly comments like these, are very "friend-like", if you understand me.


QUOTE (FMAobsessed @ Nov 10 2009, 10:59 AM) *
Isn't it possible for Roy and Riza to love each other and be friends?

It is, and I do believe it's clear that the dynamic stemmed from deep trust; trust is present in many dynamics, and the lines have been made incredibly clear [paralleling the context of Edward and Winry's dynamics; there is a clear romantic dimension present].

QUOTE
They have a history together and have been through so much together, that they do need each other.

About the hug thing. I believe that the hug wasn't just "Oh my friend, you are safe." I do believe that he did hug her with relief. But if at the same time, he held onto her for several panels. Also Roy has been so careful about letting anyone see an emotional side to him. Especially the enemy. So I think that the fact that he held onto her in front of the enemy, while in a battle means something.

I agree with this.

Though what I can't necessarily agree with is the sentiment that romantic relationships are built wholly on base attraction; it IS part of it, but what sort of relationship can function without trust? Trust is in all forms. Friends into lovers is not uncommon, and to be honest, the only difference between a best friend and a boyfriend [or girlfriend] is the romantic spice. There is still trust, honesty, very similiar feelings to other dynamics.


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FailToImpress
post Nov 10 2009, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (Miss MP @ Nov 10 2009, 07:13 PM) *
Though what I can't necessarily agree with is the sentiment that romantic relationships are built wholly on base attraction; it IS part of it, but what sort of relationship can function without trust? Trust is in all forms. Friends into lovers is not uncommon, and to be honest, the only difference between a best friend and a boyfriend [or girlfriend] is the romantic spice. There is still trust, honesty, very similiar feelings to other dynamics.


Okay, I just realised I mis-worded. I never meant that romance is based on attraction alone, I just meant it as it being one of the things that contribute to it. smile.gif Attraction is very important, and that counts for everything beyond the physical.
Of course a romantic relationship is based on trust, it's the most important thing.
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Turdaewen
post Nov 10 2009, 02:47 PM
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I don't think their relationship is 'platonic' at all. At the TRUE meaning of the expression, of course, not the popular one.

Nor is it just friendship, even though friends really do love eachother. It's just that, even if they haven't come to terms with it, yet, they have a dynamics of a couple, which are different from the dynamics of two friends, even when those friends are a man and a woman.

It's really hard to describe it, since most people think that it can't have no friendship between a man and a woman, but I dare say there is, since I've got one. And he's actually my ex-bf and we were together for over 2 years and it didn't work out exactly because of that: even though we love eachother (always have, always will), we didn't work as a couple, because our dynamics were always that of two friends. (and yes... I was attracted to him, at first, but it didn't last because it didn't felt right)

A couple has a sort of complicity and they sorta 'add to the other', they're complementary... You could say 'but friends can have that, too...' and yes, they do, but not to the same extend or even the same way. It's complicated to explain it in words, but, when you do have a partner, we get the difference. And I never really understood the difference until I broke up with this friend of mine and started dating my current boyfriend and then I got it! I understood what 'being a couple' really meant and why it hadn't work out with others, before.

And, from what I see from Roy and Riza, EVEN if they haven't really kissed or anything, they act like a couple, they have the dynamics of a couple, they talk like a couple, and not merely as partners or friends or family....

It's like the same difference between Winry and Al and Winry and Ed. They WAY they talk to eachother is different, and it's not only because Ed likes to tease and irritate Winry, it's something we can't pinpoint, but it's there! You see?

It's like Roy and Riza are two parts of one thing, they synchronize in a way that friends don't. To a point that you can't understand or describe one without the other.


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RoyxRizaFan
post Nov 10 2009, 02:57 PM
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I can't believe I'm late to the discussion of the one - if not the - greatest RoyAi moment of all time! I was sick, but meraciously felt better after reading this!

I officially forgive Arakawa for those ten months (which I haven't forgotten) where we had NO Roy, let alone Roy/Riza interaction. Those were rough, rough times, which ended when OH YEAH he hid behind a curtain in the hosptial, and they were so close, but couldn't talk, and it was all too cruel...no, I'll never forget that, but because Roy has been in the spotlight so much lately, I forgive Arakawa.

Ever since chapter 39, when we saw Riza reacting to Roy's 'death', I've been dying to see how Roy would react if it was Riza who was in really big danger (Gluttony doesn't count) He looked so desperate as he was trying to break free from the soldiers, and it was really heartwrenching as he called out to her, and poor Riza was...not in a good state.

And then the hug scene, where he was desperately clinging onto her...and the part about reading her expression, as him continuing to hold onto her because he was so shaken by what happened that he didn't want anything to happen.

Of course, the great thing about RoyAi is subtlty, but being a rabid fangirl, I need a little more than that now and then XD I know it's just a hug, but because it's RoyAi, where the most we usually get is a look (that only fans can interpret), it is probably the most we're going to get (until the epilouge where they get married, of course *ahem* I hope you heard that, Arakawa, unless you want angry stampedes of fans pardading your streets with torches...)

Oh, and everyone who said it wasn't canon is just in denial. I'm too happy to be objective at the moment. Maybe I'll have calmed down by next week biggrin.gif


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The_Twilight_Tri...
post Nov 10 2009, 03:00 PM
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Turdaewen, I don't think that you possibly could have explained this better. I totally agree. biggrin.gif



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jacksparrow589
post Nov 10 2009, 03:10 PM
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^Seconded. How is it that she always manages to do that? (Not to say that nobody else on here does that--I just know that I can RARELY say anything so... succinctly, maybe?) I guess it's a combination of life experience and insightfulness that, at 19, I don't yet possess. (I do understand the guy-as-only-a-friend thing, though. I've got that going on, too. Were I to go out with him, it just wouldn't work.)

I just know that Roy has reacted differently enough about Riza than about any other character, even before I really started analyzing it. As has been said, it's not that he treats anyone better--I just don't really have words for the difference.


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RoyxRizaFan4ever
post Nov 10 2009, 04:18 PM
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*breathes again after a month*

smile.gif

But does anyone know what it says to the left in the panel with Mei on page 30? Wondering if it's important...
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