HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Hawkeye X Roy: The Royai Thread, For Roy, Riza, and Royai fans, and more!!
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A Pierrot's Aria
post Jan 27 2011, 10:22 PM
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@Reverine Methernlance This thread is for Royai, not every other couple. laugh.gif Also, check for a PM in your inbox, please. happy.gif

@GhyZe The only way you'll see the differences first hand is to watch the first anime with your own eyes, if and when you get the chance. happy.gif


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GhyZe
post Jan 27 2011, 10:43 PM
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@Pierrot: Thank you. Then, I'll watch it. wink.gif


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Turdaewen
post Jan 28 2011, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE (GhyZe @ Jan 28 2011, 03:12 AM) *
QUOTE
What makes it Royai is that the shippers insist it's clearly there, and some people just don't understand that's it's a fact what we see, haha.

Yes, you're right! I don't understand when they're thinking something bad about Riza or Roy...
I think FMA characters are well done and their personalities are so amazing...

*sigh*

I bet Roy's personality in first anime series is not like in the manga version/second anime series, and it really makes me dissapointed...

About Roy's personality, it is! So much, in fact, that some even consider MangaRoy and FMA1Roy to be "different characters". (myself included) But you'll have to see to check if people are correct. XD

About the shippers, I guess that, many people may think Royai is NOT cannon for one main reason: many of them are accustomed with other shounen mangas/animes and don't actually are very familiar with Arakawa's work. Of course that, "we cannot state something is cannon with 100% sure unless the author or the series itself states it", BUT we also have to consider the style of the author.

In this case, Arakawa is not particularly inclined to make "obvious couples". Most of her couples (except only EdWin and, maybe, Jack and Kyuubi, from Shangai Youma Kikai. And the ones who are actually married, which is another subject) are very subtle and she has no intention of making them otherwise. Which doesn't mean that they are not intentional: she just prefers making them in a realistic sort of way. And, lets face it, 90% of the anime couples who are "cannon" in the true sense of the word are anything but realistic.

I always use a couple from Juushin Enbu as an example: The couple Ryuukyou and RinMei was believed to be just another shipper, as there were no actually 'proof' that they had anything with eachother, until, one day, RinMei simply comes to Ryuukyou stating she's pregnant (with his child, of course). We didn't have any previous warning of the nature of their relationship whatsoever. At least, nothing a Western fan usually considers to be "cannon proof": only the normal Arakawa's style things.


Sometimes people expect Arakawa will make an ultra-romantic scene for Royai (and some people state that, "If she doesn't, it means that they're not cannon"), but she won't (I sure of that). It's just not her style.But that doesn't mean she doesn't consider them to be a couple. I hope she can say something about it in the next Guide only so that people can stop wondering about it. And worrying, as well.
I guess any sort of scene to make Royai "obvious" in a sense to make the "Doubting Thomases" agree they are cannon would be out of character.
So, I guess the only way to actually convince them and not be OOC, would be if she explained it in a guide.


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RadicalDreamer
post Jan 28 2011, 08:52 AM
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Even if some people don't believe in Royai... I'm still happy that they're not being acerbic asses about it. Another fandom of mine has to fight the hatred and it's not pretty (I have to admit still, that show didn't know how to handle romance AND character development properly... while I think Arakawa knows what she's doing *I love her*... if Royai had to suffer the same hatred... ugh... we would have to suffer many comments like :"Royai is meant to fail... it weakens Riza's character *I actually already met people who think Riza has no will of her own... like a friend of mine who totally prefered Olivia to her*, they should find and date other people who talk/share their feelings openly, it's a boss/subordinate relationship so it's BAADD, and blah blah blah..."... no matter the fact that they're cute, no matter the fact that they NEED each other and not some other people). So I'm glad the Royai pairing (and Riza's character) is not hated much outside this thread and forum. Actually, I think the FMA community is quite nice as a whole.

About Roy's personality... I liked both. Anime1Roy seemed more manly/mature or something (or maybe it's because of Travis's voice *I watched the whole thing in english*... and the japanese voice actor also had a smexy voice lol). MangaRoy has more substance to him... more character development too (so yeah, he's a better character... the whole Mustang Team is better anyway... not just simple comic relief characters). I just don't like the "girly Roy" crack (fans are more guilty of this... but still, it's Arakawa who made Roy's sisters dress him as a girl when he was little). And Riza.... well to be honest... I don't think she changed that much (maybe a bit less strict...)... but she's a deeper character in the manga/Brotherhood, that's for sure.

QUOTE
Sometimes people expect Arakawa will make an ultra-romantic scene for Royai

It reminds me the time we just learned that Roy had become blind and we were expecting Riza to break down when she was going to find out. In the end, their reunion wasn't tearful or even emotional... they just kept going together without complains like the badasses they are. It surprised me a bit... but we had awesome fight scenes after that... I wasn't going to complain lol.


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A Pierrot's Aria
post Jan 28 2011, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE (RadicalDreamer @ Jan 28 2011, 03:52 PM) *
I just don't like the "girly Roy" crack (fans are more guilty of this... but still, it's Arakawa who made Roy's sisters dress him as a girl when he was little).


REALLY? I've totally missed something here, apparently...when did this come to light? Was it in a guide or in the manga...a gaiden maybe? (I'm not saying you made it up, by the way, I'm genuinely intrigued by this revelation) laugh.gif

QUOTE
It reminds me the time we just learned that Roy had become blind and we were expecting Riza to break down when she was going to find out. In the end, their reunion wasn't tearful or even emotional... they just kept going together without complains like the badasses they are. It surprised me a bit... but we had awesome fight scenes after that... I wasn't going to complain lol.


I thought that bit was awesome!


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jacksparrow589
post Jan 28 2011, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE (RadicalDreamer @ Jan 28 2011, 07:52 AM) *
It reminds me the time we just learned that Roy had become blind and we were expecting Riza to break down when she was going to find out. In the end, their reunion wasn't tearful or even emotional... they just kept going together without complains like the badasses they are. It surprised me a bit... but we had awesome fight scenes after that... I wasn't going to complain lol.


I'd say that that reunion was very emotionally charged--think what both of them must have been feeling! I think if you qualify "emotional" with "outwardly", then yes, I'd agree, and for good reason: it wasn't the time or the place. And I don't think either of them would have completely fallen apart even if it had been the time or the place, but it would still be very shocking.

And believe you-me, there are plenty of people who don't like Royai, and plenty of people who are ambivalent about it. We just expect members to be civil on this board, and almost 100% of the time, people comply. We've had a few posters come in and try to disrupt the peace, but that's not just a Royai Thread occurrence. Everybody has a right to their own opinion, so let's not bash the people who dislike Royai. (Not that any horrible remarks have been made yet--just heading it off before something possibly does happen.)

Turdaewen--Ahhh, the Juushin Enbu parallel! I remember that moment! laugh.gif

A Pierrot's Aria--I believe the thing about Roy's sisters dressing him up was in a guidebook that hasn't been released in English yet. I think...


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Turdaewen
post Jan 28 2011, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (RadicalDreamer @ Jan 28 2011, 01:52 PM) *
Even if some people don't believe in Royai... I'm still happy that they're not being acerbic asses about it. Another fandom of mine has to fight the hatred and it's not pretty (I have to admit still, that show didn't know how to handle romance AND character development properly... while I think Arakawa knows what she's doing *I love her*... if Royai had to suffer the same hatred... ugh... we would have to suffer many comments like :"Royai is meant to fail... it weakens Riza's character *I actually already met people who think Riza has no will of her own... like a friend of mine who totally prefered Olivia to her*, they should find and date other people who talk/share their feelings openly, it's a boss/subordinate relationship so it's BAADD, and blah blah blah..."... no matter the fact that they're cute, no matter the fact that they NEED each other and not some other people). So I'm glad the Royai pairing (and Riza's character) is not hated much outside this thread and forum. Actually, I think the FMA community is quite nice as a whole.

About Roy's personality... I liked both. Anime1Roy seemed more manly/mature or something (or maybe it's because of Travis's voice *I watched the whole thing in english*... and the japanese voice actor also had a smexy voice lol). MangaRoy has more substance to him... more character development too (so yeah, he's a better character... the whole Mustang Team is better anyway... not just simple comic relief characters). I just don't like the "girly Roy" crack (fans are more guilty of this... but still, it's Arakawa who made Roy's sisters dress him as a girl when he was little). And Riza.... well to be honest... I don't think she changed that much (maybe a bit less strict...)... but she's a deeper character in the manga/Brotherhood, that's for sure.

I think that people who believe that because of Royai, Riza is weaker, didn't quite got Riza. Probably because they think Riza sticks by Roy because "she can't live without him" and not because "she decided to dedicate her life for something bigger", and that Roy is a PART of that.
For me, saying something like that it's like saying "Mulan is weak for taking her father's place at war." Giving up your life to work for someone else's dream and for the "greater good" is no weakness, its nobility, cause you have the power to choose and you choose to sacrifice and devote yourself, instead of being selfish and only thinking of your own life. (I mean, if I was a weak person, I would not join a sort of life where I would have to give up everything and, on top of that, having to jeopardy my life every week. That hardly seems like a weak move to me)

If she was, indeed, in it for Roy, she would have never pointed that gun at him and she would not have the guts to kill him (which we all know she would, if she had to). So, contrary to common thinking, she's not at all a mere "dog of Mustang's": she has elected him as her 'leader', and she did it for a reason and not because she's got no self-thinking (quite the contrary, indeed).
It's actually funny to notice Riza owns a "Shiba Inu" (if you have watched that movie "Hachiko: A Dog's Story", you'll probably get when I'm about to say, since Akitas and Shibas are quite similar), cause it's sorta like mirrors herself: Roy didn't choose Riza and he isn't "the strong one" or "her boss". It was Riza who chose Roy, because she is the one who has the power to choose and, therefore, in the end, she is the one with all the cards in her hand.
As Freud used to say: people only get on top of pedestals because someone put them there and, just as well as they putted, they can take them down, so, at the end, the choice is up to the one that 'submit' themselves. Or like my sister loves to say "The man may be the 'head of the house', but the woman... well, the woman is the neck". lol

So it's kinda like Riza to say: ok, I'll put my life in service to your dream, but you'll have to stay faithful to that ideal of yours or you'll be dead before it hits the ground.

So, that, for me, that's something that changes between Riza in FMA 1 and in the manga. And it is a HUGE difference that, basicaly, changes everything: it changes the whole relationship between Riza and Roy, changes the whole thinking/acting pattern of Riza's, why she's in the military and why she works under Mustang...

A Pierrot's Aria - And that thing about Roy... well... actually, it's not official. It seems as if it's a "fan's talk" from Japanese foruns. The only thing that actually seems to be truth is the fact that the girls who work under Madame Christmas' are considered to be "Roy's sisters". But that seems it was said by Arakawa doing an interview a couple of years back.
But there's nothing about him "being dressed up as a girl". Apparently, that has been made up.

jacksparrow589 - Yeah... I was kinda "what the h?" when that happened. XD It was something noone could have predicted and I really wanted to kick Arakawa for making such a 'out of the blue' revelation like that. lol


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A Pierrot's Aria
post Jan 28 2011, 10:46 AM
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@Turdaewen Aaaah, thanks for that --I knew that it was mentioned that the girls were considered to be his sisters, I was just a little shocked yet amused when I read that Arakawa apparently said that they dressed him up. laugh.gif

(And I agree with your explanation, too! Brilliantly put!)

Edit:
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@@Turdaewen I see...it could be possibly what jacksparrow589 suggested about it being in an as of yet untranslated guidebook. I do agree it seems a really strange and far-fetched thing for poor Roy to be dressed up as a girl. laugh.gif

Oh, there's only 4? I really don't know- I've only ever read the first guide and just found out some other things from around. Well, if anyone has definite confirmation of this strange notion, I'm sure they'll post it --otherwise I think it's safe to say it's not really true. tongue.gif Thank you, anyway. wink.gif


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Turdaewen
post Jan 28 2011, 11:00 AM
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Though I'm not like a 100% sure it's not true. But I haven't seen any proof that it is and it all seems a lilttle too far-fetched, since it's not stated in any Guidebook... XD

Edit: in fact, the first time Arakawa mentioned "Roy's sisters" was quite a while back... We didn't even know that Madame Christmas was his aunt/foster mother, back then. She just said that "Roy had a lot of sisters and grew up surrounded by women".


But I don't think it's on any "untranslated guide", cause I have the scans for all 4 released guides here and (the 3 perfect guidebooks and the character guide), in the third one is relatively "new". It's newer than these "rumors", at least. And neither the first, nor the second states anything about that.

There are other guides, but not from the manga: they are Anime-related. In terms of "manga information", we have 4 up until now and the "Ultimate Guide" will be released later this year... in June, if I'm not mistaken.


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MustangSally
post Jan 28 2011, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (Turdaewen @ Jan 28 2011, 01:39 PM) *
So it's kinda like Riza to say: ok, I'll put my life in service to your dream, but you'll have to stay faithful to that ideal of yours or you'll be dead before it hits the ground.


True, but to be fair, Roy chose that for himself as well. He gave her that power, as much as she has the power to wield it. It was his idea and he allowed himself to be in that position with her.
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Turdaewen
post Jan 29 2011, 06:51 AM
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QUOTE (MustangSally @ Jan 29 2011, 02:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Turdaewen @ Jan 28 2011, 01:39 PM) *
So it's kinda like Riza to say: ok, I'll put my life in service to your dream, but you'll have to stay faithful to that ideal of yours or you'll be dead before it hits the ground.


True, but to be fair, Roy chose that for himself as well. He gave her that power, as much as she has the power to wield it. It was his idea and he allowed himself to be in that position with her.

Of course Roy chose that for himself.
But I don't think you quite got what I mean: what I mean that "follow Roy" was RIZA's decision and Roy has no power over that whatsoever (in the sense that it was not forced upon her). So much so, he's constantly asking her if she'll keep following him. She could leave him at any time she wants and, if she doesn't, that is a conscious choice of hers and not as some sort of dependency.


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jacksparrow589
post Jan 29 2011, 08:48 AM
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All this discussion reminds me of chapter 95. You know, the one where the fan translation came into question... and so did Riza's character. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about (and if you don't, I won't spoil it for you--this amazing moment must be experienced without any spoilers).

I think Turdaewen's got it right in the above post (as does anyone who's saying the same thing): they both chose their own paths independently.

...That's really all I want to say on the subject. tongue.gif


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SamusTheHunter
post Jan 31 2011, 02:27 PM
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Is it agreed upon or disagreed upon that they were possibly together the whole time and just hide it really well (or very poorly haha)? I always wondered that. "Advance of the Fool" just came out on Adult Swim in Eng. Dub and the faces they made to eachother as well as the way they talked. Her expression and the emotion she had when she said "It's too late for regrets" alluded (spelling) to lots of caring..

did that make sense? *confused face*
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jacksparrow589
post Jan 31 2011, 05:27 PM
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It really just depends on who you're talking to. Arakawa's never said anything explicitly one way or the other (as far as I know, at least), so unless there's goodies for us in FMA Chronicles, we may never know. Sorry I can't be more helpful.


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Turdaewen
post Jan 31 2011, 07:03 PM
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Yeah... but there's a possibility that they ARE already a couple and noone knows about it. Or even that they were a couple or had a romance sometime in the past... There's even the possibility that they had feelings for eachother all along but never really committed to it.
Since Arakawa never really said anything about it, there's all those possibilities.
But she did joke about it during the Envy episode... lol

Let's just pray and hope she'll let us some light about it at the Chronicles... (maybe a timeline to the future with a wedding date?? that would be a pleasant surprise) XD


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