HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Thread for Royai fans who read Arakawa comment in FMA manga artbook III (Warning! Possible Major Royai Spoiler!), Come in ONLY if you do not mind getting such SPOILER!
RoyxRizaFan
post May 3 2011, 06:39 PM
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It's an implication. Arakawa basically says (and I'm being vague b/c for some reason my computer won't let me use spoiler tags right now) they couldn't because of regulations. She doesn't say because they're not an item, but because of regulations, implying that this is the only thing stopping them. Otherwise she would have simply avoided the question or answered, "because they are not romantic interests."

It's not so much an "assummption" as reading a deeper meaning in Arakawa's words, which is required because she never, ever comes out and says what she wants her fans to think, or to see, especially when it comes to Roy and Riza's relationship. She's vague and obscure with it on purpose, in order to emphasize the basis of their relationship, their lack of a need for explicity and the subtlty that comes with comfort and trust. Her answer was matter-of-fact and casual, adding to the fact that the opposite - their actually getting you-know-what - would occur if they COULD. She says it in a tone that implies that it would be natural otherwise. Directly saying, "they would b/c yes, they looove each other" would take away from all teh meaning she put in the relationship throughout the years, building it in the subtle and inexplicit ways she did. She purposefully responds like this because it reflects the state of their relationship.

@ Ultimate Shield - That's crazy! You all knew each other, I ran into you, and didn't even know it! XD I love talking to you guys, though! Def one of my fave parts of AB!

Hope I make sense...


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Winry Rockbell~
post May 3 2011, 06:43 PM
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She didn't imply that they were together either. ^.^;;

"Adding to the fact that the opposite - their actually getting you-know-what - would occur if they COULD. "
Where does it say that in her quote?


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RoyxRizaFan
post May 3 2011, 06:47 PM
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But she said "they couldn't get married because of military regulations." If what she meant was they wouldn't get married because they don't want to, or because they're not in love, she would have. The only reason she stated for them not getting married was military, which is unrelated to their feelings.


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xUltimate_Shield...
post May 3 2011, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (Winry Rockbell~ @ May 3 2011, 07:43 PM) *
She didn't imply that they were together either. ^.^;;


They're not together. The quote implies they love each other and would get married if they could. But they stay in a professional relationship because of the military.


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Winry Rockbell~
post May 3 2011, 06:57 PM
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I understand now, but dude that sucks. You think if they love each other so much they'd sacrifice their jobs for each other? *shrugs*
Maybe I'm being a bit moody because today is 503 day and no one on this forum has posted anything about it. <.<


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xUltimate_Shield...
post May 3 2011, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (Winry Rockbell~ @ May 3 2011, 07:57 PM) *
I understand now, but dude that sucks. You think if they love each other so much they'd sacrifice their jobs for each other? *shrugs*
Maybe I'm being a bit moody because today is 503 day and no one on this forum has posted anything about it. <.<


It doesn't suck. I think the fact that they stand by each other like that shows they love each other more than the average couple. They don't want romantic happiness. They truly want to be side by side protecting and helping each other and show so much devotion for one another. It was their own choice, and they definitely don't seem to regret it.


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Dark-Winds
post May 3 2011, 07:05 PM
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I like how RoyxRizaFan just worded that.

I feel as if the comment made by Arakawa basically said that if Roy and Riza could get married, then they would. Like RoyxRizaFan was saying, Arakawa wouldn't just make a comment like that for no reason. There is in fact reasoning behind it. Otherwise, like said by RoyxRizaFan, she would have just simply said that they were not a romantic item all together.

These are my feelings about Royai being canon:

I feel, like xUltimate_Shieldx, that Royai has been canon all along, just the same way as Edwin has. And that if you look hard enough, then it will become quiet clear.

I feel as if Royai is not a couple that you can just look at blindly and say "I think I'm going to ship them because they're a superior officer and his personal aide an that's hot." They require a lot more thinking than just that, along with a lot more analyzation. Ed and Winry, for example, is a couple you can just look at and say "Well duh, they're ment for each other. Isn't it obvious?"

Roy and Riza are different though. Their relationship is a lot deeper than that, and requires reading between the lines. While Ed and Winry make it very obvious, Roy and Riza keep it very subtle. And I mean, they have to. They're two very professional people who have a goal to reach, and if they're caught goofing around, they could lose all of that.

If time is taken to look deeper at even the small conversations that Roy and Riza have, along with their facial expressions and what not, it can become very clear that they are in fact canon. An example, try looking a little bit deeper at the phone conversation they have after Riza realizes that Selim is Pride in volume 18. Roy knows that something is wrong with Riza even before she can say anything, and he still thinks that something is up after she hangs up the phone. That alone shows the connection the two of them have with each other.

And about them sacrificing their jobs. I see that comment has been made twice. Roy and Riza would never give up their goal for love. Roy wants to better the country. That's been his dream for as long as he's been learning alchemy. And Riza wants to be right by his side through it all. Riza feels the need to protect Roy, and if she leaves the military, then she wont be able to do that for him. Roy and Riza, in a way, depend on each other. Riza will "follow Roy into Hell." She wouldn't quit her job so she could be a "stay at home wife" while Roy is in the military all day. That isn't who she is. Roy and Riza aren't your stereotypical couple. Roy wouldn't leave Riza to protect her or go to work without her because he'd rather be married to her because he loves her and vice versa. They want to go through it all together. They want to be there for each other always. So if they have to sacrifice a love life to live that way, then so be it. That's the way they roll tongue.gif


That is the end of my opinon xD Questions?


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xUltimate_Shield...
post May 3 2011, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE (Dark-Winds @ May 3 2011, 08:05 PM) *
I like how RoyxRizaFan just worded that.

I feel as if the comment made by Arakawa basically said that if Roy and Riza could get married, then they would. Like RoyxRizaFan was saying, Arakawa wouldn't just make a comment like that for no reason. There is in fact reasoning behind it. Otherwise, like said by RoyxRizaFan, she would have just simply said that they were not a romantic item all together.

These are my feelings about Royai being canon:

I feel, like xUltimate_Shieldx, that Royai has been canon all along, just the same way as Edwin has. And that if you look hard enough, then it will become quiet clear.

I feel as if Royai is not a couple that you can just look at blindly and say "I think I'm going to ship them because they're a superior officer and his personal aide an that's hot." They require a lot more thinking than just that, along with a lot more analyzation. Ed and Winry, for example, is a couple you can just look at and say "Well duh, they're ment for each other. Isn't it obvious?"

Roy and Riza are different though. Their relationship is a lot deeper than that, and requires reading between the lines. While Ed and Winry make it very obvious, Roy and Riza keep it very subtle. And I mean, they have to. They're two very professional people who have a goal to reach, and if they're caught goofing around, they could lose all of that.

If time is taken to look deeper at even the small conversations that Roy and Riza have, along with their facial expressions and what not, it can become very clear that they are in fact canon. An example, try looking a little bit deeper at the phone conversation they have after Riza realizes that Selim is Pride in volume 18. Roy knows that something is wrong with Riza even before she can say anything, and he still thinks that something is up after she hangs up the phone. That alone shows the connection the two of them have with each other.

And about them sacrificing their jobs. I see that comment has been made twice. Roy and Riza would never give up their goal for love. Roy wants to better the country. That's been his dream for as long as he's been learning alchemy. And Riza wants to be right by his side through it all. Riza feels the need to protect Roy, and if she leaves the military, then she wont be able to do that for him. Roy and Riza, in a way, depend on each other. Riza will "follow Roy into Hell." She wouldn't quit her job so she could be a "stay at home wife" while Roy is in the military all day. That isn't who she is. Roy and Riza aren't your stereotypical couple. Roy wouldn't leave Riza to protect her or go to work without her because he'd rather be married to her because he loves her and vice versa. They want to go through it all together. They want to be there for each other always. So if they have to sacrifice a love life to live that way, then so be it. That's the way they roll tongue.gif


That is the end of my opinon xD Questions?


COMPLETELY. AGREE.


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jacksparrow589
post May 3 2011, 08:03 PM
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Winry Rockbell~--Yup, and for us, that's exactly the point: that's the only thing stopping them, is essentially what we're getting from it. It's not that they wouldn't want to, or that they're okay like this (though, if it works for them, I'm not gonna knock it) and that's all that they ever want, but it's the way things happened to work out, and if it wasn't for the military, they would be together, simple as that.

(Or maybe not, if someone wants to correct me on this.)

EDIT: Ooooookay, it would appear that either I can't read or posts appeared here between me typing this post and the one I was responding to. huh.gif


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RadicalDreamer
post May 3 2011, 09:25 PM
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What I meant was... when someone says "this couple is canon", people will think that they are in a romantic relationship/together. Royai isn't canon in that sense... they're canon in the sense that they do love each other (people call that a non couple... in the sense that they aren't in a relationship but the feelings are there... and yeah, if Roy or Riza wasn't military, they would have been married long ago *that's what Arakawa implied*).

And I said that Riza would perhaps quit once Roy becomes Furher/attains his goal because she said something that made me think that :

QUOTE
Riza Hawkeye:’There is someone I need to protect. It was not because I was forced by anyone, but it was my own free will. It is my own choice to pull the trigger for the person who I must protect. Until the day that peson accomplishes his goal… I will pull the trigger without doubt.’


So, she says, "Until the day that person accomplishes his goal... I will pull the trigger without doubt." Well, let's say that I noticed the "Until...". After Roy has accomplished his goal, what is she planning to do ?
And besides, can Riza be both his aide and the First Lady ?
Not that I think their duty isn't important to them... and they're good at protecting each others (and goodness, that's why we love those 2).


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Dark-Winds
post May 4 2011, 03:47 AM
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@RadicalDreamer

Unfortunately, no. Riza would not be able to be both his personal aide and first lady. This is due to military regulations. Like Arakawa said.

And I don't necessarily believe that a couple needs to get together to be canon.

I like the idea of what you said about that quote, it's good thinking and a nice observation. However, I doubt that Riza would leave his side as his body guard if he became Fuhrer. Like I said, the two of them depend on each other. And Riza wouldn't want to be a "stay at home wife", it's not in her personality. She wouldn't let Roy go to work while she stayed at home and cleaned, and Roy wouldn't want that either. The two of them want to go through everything together, and always be by each other's sides. If Roy was in danger because of, let's say an assassination attempt, and Riza was at home doing laundry, she wouldn't be there to protect him, even if he did have other body guards. Riza just doesn't seem like the type to be staying at home while Roy works. Like I said, they aren't your stereotypical couple. They'll sacrifice having a romantic relationship for their jobs.


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RoyxRizaFan
post May 4 2011, 05:56 AM
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Being "canon" in marriage is, to me, less important than being canon in love. There are plenty of people who are married and still don't love each other. Mr. and Mrs. Bennet from Pride and Prejudice are married, are "canon" but what different does it make, if they don't love each other? Roy and Riza DO love each other, and it's been confirmed that their feelings aren't platonic, and to me that's more canon than anything. Marriage is just a formal recognition of a relationship, not a relationship. Love is love, and marriage is just a symbol of it - a branch of it.

But I'm getting kind of wayward here so I'm going to come back...

As for it being sad that they have to work instead of marry, I think in these character's cases, it's more beautiful than anything. As romantic as sitting at home by the fireside is, there's something so much deeper about having a full understanding and dedication to someone great - a dream to better the country - and their mutual desire to better the world, together, with their love and devotion is, I think, a blessing rather than an impediment. I've always thought their strength and devotion to their goal and one another was one of the, if not THE most beautiful aspect of their relationship, and I think that this goal that connects them is stronger than any wedding band could ever be in linking the two together.

Oh, and I might add that Dark Wind's earlier post was genius XD


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Turdaewen
post May 4 2011, 02:13 PM
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Omg, so many things to answer... I don't even know where to start... lol

First, about people saying that "Arakawa is not implying anything", there're quite a few people out there who, first: think Tombow's translation of the comment is wrong, second, that there comment has no implications whatsoever and, therefore, Royai is not cannon. In fact, I've been discussing that with a dude at the FMA wikia for like 3 days, now... exausting, I might add. ¬¬'

About cannoness, the word "cannon" comes from Catholic church, meaning a text is "original", which means it takes part on the "official texts" of the Bible (which, according to them, are all inspired by the Holy Ghost, when they were written).So, basically, cannon only means something that is "intentially put by the author", as opposed to something a fan has created. So, "being cannon" does not mean being "romantically involved" or anything of the sort: it only means the author understands that "couple" as being "in love", whether they might act on it, or even be AWARE of it.
For example: Sakura and Syoran from CCS are a cannon couple not since Syoran started to notice his feelings towards Sakura, but from the day one, when CLAMP decided that their relationship would be of a romantic nature and, therefore, be a contributing factor to the character's decisions throughtout the development of the series. And even when the feeling isn't reciprocal, it IS cannon, meaning, the cannon is that "someone is in love with someone else and that other person doesn't love him/her back". For example, Faye Valentine is in love with Spike, but Spike loves with Julia. So, THAT definition is also cannon. Is the couple Faye and Spike cannon? No, but the fact that Faye is in love with him and he's not, is. (let's not enter the fact that Spike might have feelings back, cause that would be complicated)
And "cannon" doesn't necessarily refers to couples and romantic involvement, actually, but of ANYTHING and EVENRYTHING in a work that can be considered to be "the author's mind".

This is why cannon is, by definition, something rather subjective, because it depends on the intentionallity of ones writing, which is something that it, sometimes, not clear even to the person who's writing it. (you think that Saint John KNEW he was being 'inspired by the Holy Ghost" as he wrote the Apocalipse and that the words he wrote weren't 'his' in the first place? He might suspect it, but certainly not aware of it.)

That being said, I understand that the FMA fans who insist on saying Royai is not cannon are either unaware of the true meaning of Cannon and, therefore, believe that a stablished relationship or even the awareness of 'being in love' is required to consider a couple to be cannon, or even believe that, in order for a couple to be cannon, they have to be "exclusive", so, therefore "Sakura and Sasuke being cannon elliminates the possibility of Sakura and Naruto being cannon". Or that they have established in their minds some other understanding of the works by Arakawa and won't change their interpretations unless a blunt statement by the author contradicts such an interpretation. Which is something someone can pass through with many a mangakas, but means a "Death sentence" for the works by Arakawa, since she's the sort of author who expects US to be "clever enough to get it, even without me saying it".

So, is there any chance that WE are "over implying" towards thinking this comment by Arakawa proves that Royai is cannon? There's always a chance, since she didn't say the "words itself". But, I trully doubt it and would be taken aback if she was to say in the future that "it's not". (and I'm sooo expecting that Arakawa would put something blunt in the FMA Chronicles or make that Gaiden she said she was thinking of doing... it would be so fun to see these "Saint Thomas"'s go ohmy.gif )

But, anyways.... About the marriage itself, I guess people already said everything there's to say about it: Riza DID mention that she would protect Roy "until he reaches his goal" and that makes total sense, because, it was their promise to do so, after all. And I really do believe Riza would leave the Military after Roy becomes Führer, since she's there almost solely for Roy and that she doesn't really like it. She does it (like a Mulan sort of thing) for her sense of duty, not for taste. Moreover, noone ever said the First Lady of Amestris has to be a "house wife" and she can very well be his "civilian assistant" as Führer, since the Fraternization regulation is something specific of the Military personnel, because of the obedience oath and personal privileges, both of which wouldn't be an issue in case Riza worked as a civilian...
But, I really don't know... THAT we would really have to ask Arakawa. XD


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RadicalDreamer
post May 4 2011, 02:47 PM
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That's more or less how I see it Turdaewen.
I don't think either that Roy or Riza are the "housewife" type... but in Riza's case, I don't think she was really planning to stay military forever either. She joined the military because of her ideals and then to protect Roy and because she feels also responsible for what Roy did... but I don't think the military was REALLY her thing.
I'm not sure she would have chosen the military if she hadn't met Roy.



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FirstMoon
post May 16 2011, 11:43 AM
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I don't know what to say here.First Lady doing housework? Seriously guys? First Lady is nowhere equal to your avarage housewife.It fairly changes to person.Sometimes First Lady can dictate the country,both controlling her man and government while some of them just tries to look "good" on pictures.In past times same goes for queens as well.
Some informations about being first lady: (Mostly examples are from America because the title's origin is coming from there)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Lady_of_the_United_States (read the role of first lady)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2008...dies-main_N.htm

QUOTE
There is a strong tradition against the First Lady holding outside employment while serving as White House hostess.However, some first ladies have exercised a degree of political influence by virtue of being an important adviser to the president


Especially the second statement.I mean please




When Roy becomes Fuhrer he will work to stop war. This means he will need Hawkeye for something else (for example,MAKING PEACE?) more than shooting and killing people.First Lady is like the peace ambassador of the country.If he wants a bodyguard so much he will have the whole nation's army. Riza is not the only sniper there.

Well,what I'm trying to say;when Roy accomplishes his goal Riza will be more beneficial to him as First Lady.

And if Arakawa had said "They can't get married because Ishbal effected on them so much" I'd understand it.If this is the only reason keeping them away from marriage,then I'm sure they'll get married.

(Imagining a first lady doing LAUNDRY.Won't they have any maids,servants to do this stuff?Won't he have so many good qualified bodyguards? He needed Riza because there wasn't so much option and now a nation's army is under his command why would he have problems with finding a good one?)

Edit: Sorry for sounding a bit harsh but when it comes to royality I'm a bit obsessed <.<


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