HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Progressiveness In Amestrian Society, Social discussion. Yay! ^_^
Toby-Chan
post Oct 19 2005, 07:39 PM
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As a connoiseur of fanfiction, there have been some questions that have arisen (Mostly dealing with yaoi and yuri), and fan views that have made me scratch my head, on the subject of acceptance/tolerance. This of course, leads to further in depth thinking, and the questioning about how a society such as Amestris' deals with *Airquotes* "Alternative Lifestyles", aka, homosexuality, and moreover, gay marriage and gays in the military.

All things considered, minus technology, Amestris' society appears to be roughly on par with that of today's America. Looking back at our own standards in the early nineteen hundreds, they're nothing short of revolutionary; Women are in the military, fighting on the front lines, just about equal in rights and jobs to males, and get away with wearing masculine/revealing clothing without being charged with public indecency. Ishbal's war notwithstanding, they seem to be comfortable with race issues as a whole within their country (Ed and Al's neighbors; the Central State librarian, etc.)

Which makes me wonder; if they already have comfortably equal rights among the sexes and the races, would you suppose homosexuality is an issue in their general society that they've come to confront next?

Instinct would say; 'no; it's still the early 20th century, and things haven't gotten that far yet,'

One issue that seems to be factoral in this case, though, would be religion. While surrounding countries seem devout to their various practices, and it appears that Amestris had christianity at one point in it's history (that still exists in a few places), their culture seems to be far more enthusiastic about honoring science over faith, and thus, the topic of sexual orientation would be handled in a less morally judgemental way.

As far as gays in the military go: our own reasoning for the rule, is that homosexuality is classified as a mental illness, and thus, those suffering should not be allowed to serve. How do you think they, with their advanced sciences would approach the concept differently, if at all?

</way too much thinking>


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Carnal Malefacto...
post Oct 19 2005, 07:55 PM
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Is this really the proper section for such a topic?


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Toby-Chan
post Oct 19 2005, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(What, no bacon? @ Oct 19 2005, 07:55 PM) [snapback]301984[/snapback]

Is this really the proper section for such a topic?


This seems as good as any. Where would you have it? blink.gif


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Carnal Malefacto...
post Oct 19 2005, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ Oct 19 2005, 10:58 PM) [snapback]301986[/snapback]

QUOTE(What, no bacon? @ Oct 19 2005, 07:55 PM) [snapback]301984[/snapback]

Is this really the proper section for such a topic?


This seems as good as any. Where would you have it? blink.gif

Fanworks.

Or the manga section.

Actually, in the anime, the country was never identified as 'Amestris'. tongue.gif


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Toby-Chan
post Oct 19 2005, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE(What, no bacon? @ Oct 19 2005, 08:02 PM) [snapback]301988[/snapback]

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ Oct 19 2005, 10:58 PM) [snapback]301986[/snapback]

QUOTE(What, no bacon? @ Oct 19 2005, 07:55 PM) [snapback]301984[/snapback]

Is this really the proper section for such a topic?


This seems as good as any. Where would you have it? blink.gif

Fanworks.


But it's not about fanworks; I just mentioned that fanworks are what brought the question to mind. It's a legitimate discssion.

QUOTE
Or the manga section.

Actually, in the anime, the country was never identified as 'Amestris'. tongue.gif


S'not? blink.gif Either way; it's about the society of the country in which the majority of FMA takes place; anime or manga. Goodness. rolleyes.gif


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Carnal Malefacto...
post Oct 19 2005, 08:15 PM
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I don't know. I think you'd be extrapolating way out beyond what's actually presented in the anime, if you're gonna explore these issues in depth.


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Envy's lil...
post Oct 19 2005, 08:21 PM
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Well, like you said. Christianity is not praticed widely like it is here and since most stigma about homosexuality comes from christianity then it's likely they wouldn't really care all that much about it. I mean, look at Armstrong. laugh.gif

If gays are full accepted into society why wouldn't they be in the military?
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Carnal Malefacto...
post Oct 19 2005, 08:25 PM
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The guy Winry goes to work for in the manga is gay, as I recall.


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Jellybean
post Oct 19 2005, 08:27 PM
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Wow, interesting question. laugh.gif I've never tried to infer anything about social ideals from the show. If the fandom you're refering to is RoyxEd, I don't think getting it on with an underaged subordinate of the same gender would be considered appropriate in any case. Relationships between military personnel who work together would be a bad idea anyway. I think the military is fine with gays in general, though, or else someone might have something to say about Armstrong flouncing around shirtless leaving pink sparkles in his wake. laugh.gif
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GaluxKitty
post Oct 19 2005, 09:34 PM
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Actually, the stigma on homosexuality is not just in Christianity.... happens in a lot of religions (the one that comes immediately to mind is Muslim, because I was researching this the other day for my SOR assignment on morality) and a lot of countries. A few years ago in modern Iran and Romania about 2000 were killed for having homosexual relationships. I mean, it's still illegal by death to be homosexual in a lot of countries today.

Of course, if you never got caught you were fine. If you're even suspected you don't have much of a shot. And if you go by the thought that Amestris is based on close-to-Nazi Germany, Hitler wasn't too fond of homosexuals. He usually kinda... did experiments on them and imprisoned them and tortured them and stuff. Yeh; Hitler wasn't fond of religion because he thought Nazism should be the centralized institution in people's lives.. in communist China, men lost everything they had and were sent to the country to be "cleansed" if they were found to be having homosexual relationships, and Mao banned old ways of religion in Community China.

Just wanted to give you the heads up that it isn't necessarily just Christianity, or even just religion that persecutes homosexuality.


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TheVileOne
post Oct 20 2005, 12:13 AM
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I'm not going to think about it too much since it was never brought up in the series.

How about that they have full color photographs in the 10's?


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Tombow
post Oct 20 2005, 01:30 AM
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About gays in the military... Let me talk about the example in our own U.S. military a bit.

In our country, President Clinton came up with the compromise of "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.
That was thought to protect gays in the military from getting ejected from services for being gay, as long as the person keeps it to his/her own.

In reality, more (in annual statistics) gay servicemen/women have been "outed" and discharged from the militaryAFTER the policy was implemented.
But, that was in a peacetime USA.

Fast forward to current wartime America.
Now, with constant shortage of qualified service persons in all braches, U.S. military has changed rules a little, and not handing them immedeate discharges any more, even when some are outed and openly admitted that they are gay, and the military is quite willing to keep them working in the services, keep them fighting in Iraq.
These days, there are cases of gay solders sueing the U.S. military, DEMANDING to be discharged ASAP. wink.gif

So, I'm applying this to the Hagaren world, and
[spoiler]Since they are already thinking about the next war, and also needing lots of human lives for the Philosopher stone, my guess is that the military in the Fma don't care if the solder is gay or not, as long as the person has the human body and able & willing to serve the military.[/spoiler]
Besides,
[spoiler]When we see who is at the top of military, I can't imagine him seriously pondering issues such as "gays in the military." rolleyes.gif [/spoiler]

ETA: Sorry for the boring long post. But, considering the original topic question, in a way, you kinda asked for it! happy.gif


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Jellybean
post Oct 20 2005, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE(TheVileOne @ Oct 20 2005, 02:13 AM) [snapback]302080[/snapback]

How about that they have full color photographs in the 10's?


Yeah, that is weird. Maybe they're alchemically produced photos. tongue.gif Also, in the latest chapter of the manga, Ed said something about a movie he saw when he was little, which struck me as odd since I don't recall seeing any televisions or movie theatres in hagaren-world before.

@Tombow - It wasn't a boring post, it was very insightful. smile.gif
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Carnal Malefacto...
post Oct 20 2005, 01:46 PM
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I gotta wonder if there are any real qualifications at all for joining that army. If they'll allow a pipsqueak like Ed, a blacklung like Havoc, a lunatic like Kimbley, or a fatass like Breda to join, I think they'll allow in anyone who'd volunteer.

...the same may soon become true of the U.S. Army. Thanks a lot, Messieurs Bush et Rumsfeld. rolleyes.gif


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Toby-Chan
post Oct 20 2005, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE(What, no bacon? @ Oct 20 2005, 01:46 PM) [snapback]302225[/snapback]

I gotta wonder if there are any real qualifications at all for joining that army. If they'll allow a pipsqueak like Ed, a blacklung like Havoc, a lunatic like Kimbley, or a fatass like Breda to join, I think they'll allow in anyone who'd volunteer.

...the same may soon become true of the U.S. Army. Thanks a lot, Messieurs Bush et Rumsfeld. rolleyes.gif


Well, as far as state alchemists go, they're just the little wierdo minority off in a corner of the military, it would seem. They seem to be relatively tolerant of eccentric scientists in their midst. As for Havoc and Breda... *Shrug* because they're... cool? Maybe they just have relaxed health specifications so long as the person applying has some sort of madd skillz.


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