HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Ep. 51: Was Ed Selfish?
AA battery
post Apr 14 2005, 02:04 PM
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*quote from Edo-mame* From the second that Edo decided to transmute his mother he was selfish. He thought, no assumed, that his mother would be happy to come back and live together with him and Al but really, he just couldn't accept the concept of death and being without his mother whom he loved very much. He even proposed human transmutation when he learned that Winry's parents had died in the Ishbal war. What's more is that Al was dragged into the whole thing because of his trusting and obedient nature and Edo never really asked how Al felt about the whole thing. *done quoting xD*

well... what you said later on in your post kinda contradict what you said here...Ed was only 10 back then we have to consider that... really, do you think you can make the right decisions back when you are SUPPOSED to be immature and learn? I dunno about you, but back when I was 11 (ok, I didn't remember this, but my mom mentioned it later on) when I had a disease that I thought I would die from it, I told my mom that (my mom said I was quite semi-conscious at that time cuz I just had an surgery) "Mom, you should buy insurance for me... if I died, you can have a lot of money and buy things you like..." ... uh wow, o_O;; I actually said something like that... kids. xD

what I am getting at here is that... little kids loves their parents more than anything *seeing how Ed hates Hohenheim cuz he just ran off like that, indirectly causing Trisha's illness and death*

Also, as for... "transmuting Winry's parents" and "transmuting Trisha so that they can live happily together again"... really, from a kid's point of view... this really isn't that selfish (I don't think you can call Ed's over-confidence "selfish".) for the former one, he is doing it for Winry's sake because she is his best friend... for the later one, he is doing it for Al's sake because Al was crying for a long time and all, he doesn't want Al to be sad...

back to the rephrased question the poster said "was his decision mature?" There are too many POV we can view that decision... how about we view it as "if he did NOT perform the transmutation", then we can look at in in two ways (maybe more but this is all I can think of right now)

1) he is afraid of failure... what if he transmuted sth like that pile of "Trisha" he made back when he was 10? If he, really did transmute Al into that, that would be like... killing Al once again... in a... disgusting form too... that would be... sad...
2) he realizes that again, there is nothing equalvalent to Al's life... so he won't attempt the transmutation <--- which sounds mature somehow, right? but is it really mature?

so... really, whether it's selfish or mature, there is no real pointer in this... the numourous angles you can view this issue... argh *enough typing for now xD*


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Edo-mame
post Apr 14 2005, 06:02 PM
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Uh... what exactly did I say to contradict myself? I spent a long time proof reading it for things like that...


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post Apr 14 2005, 08:43 PM
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I think back then I had this thought "uhh, what this guy said about older Ed kinda applies to younger Ed too..." like how you explained that Ed wasn't selfish when he was older... kinda applies to younger Ed too (lol, I already forgot why I said you contradict too xD)


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Edo-mame
post Apr 14 2005, 09:45 PM
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I see, I see. But I did say that he was selfish when he was older, just not when he did what he did for Al in the end. Taking (or wanting to take) the philosopher's stone away from people is selfish... even though he only thought about doing that before he found out that you could make it.


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AA battery
post Apr 14 2005, 09:48 PM
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no I mean even later... like, at the later part of the series... ahh whatever == doesn't matter


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Ashirii-Chan
post Apr 14 2005, 10:11 PM
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QUOTE(fullmetal_gradstudent @ Mar 28 2005, 11:37 PM)
Hope it's ok for a newbie to start a new topic; I've looked through the forums and this issue doesn't seem to have been addressed.

I devoured the entire series last week and I think it's some of the best writing/character development I've ever seen in an anime, but the more I think about the ending, the more I believe that Ed betrayed all of the growing up and learning that he did throughout the series when he made his final transmutation.  Let me explain...

In episode 48 Ed tells Izumi that he plans on destroying the philosopher's stone.  This action would be the culmination of Ed's learning to be an adult and clean up his own mistakes (in the same vein as destroying the homunculus).  It can be argued that one of these mistakes was binding Al's soul to the armor in the first place, the selfish act of a child too afraid to face life alone.  Al pretty much comes to the conclusion that he should have died as he makes the choice to resurrect his brother.  Al's sacrifice was beautiful, but more importantly, it put Ed in the position to be a true hero, to act with maturity and responsibility, making sure that no one ever searched for the philosopher's stone again.  We're even led to believe this is what Ed will do when he tells Rose he plans on destroying the underground city.  However, instead of facing the lonliness of surviving, ensuring the downfall of research on the philosopher's stone, and gracefully releasing his brother's spirit, Ed takes what I consider to be the selfish act of using alchemy again, leaving Al to take the hard and lonely road of survival without his brother.  Worse, Al is perfectly positioned to continue the search for the stone, the very quest Ed wisely realized was nothing but trouble!

So, sorry for the long post, but I'm dying for someone to discuss this with.  Any thoughts are much appreciated!
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I understand where you're coming from.

What Ed did could be considered selfish. But we DO have to consider that he was still a child. Sixteen year olds make mistakes too. And Al's sacrifice really was beautiful. But what I think is that Ed's true weakness and fear is of losing everything and being alone. He truely loves his brother and he would have rather had him alive and the hope of seeing him again, then having him dead and no hope of ever seeing him again. At the beginning the two of them said that they wouldn't try such alchemy again like they tried with there mother. But Al wasn't technically 'dead'. He had dissapeared because he was the Philosopher's Stone. So It was somewhat different. And another thing we have to consider. Ed went through alot. I truely think that the poor boy was going crazy.

And as I said, I understand where you're coming from. And then again...aren't we all selfish?
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Edo-mame
post Apr 15 2005, 08:46 PM
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I just noticed something today when I was watching episode 22 again. [spoiler]When Edo is at the 5th lab and preparing the arrays for making the Philospohers stone, he says to Tucker that after he makes the stone and gets Al's body back he will disappear and they(Tucker and whoever) can do whatever they want (with the stone and such).[/spoiler]

So Edo knew what would happen to him once he gets Al's body back way before he actually tried it in episode 51. And the whole time that the two were looking for the stone they promised each other they would get their bodies back together but Edo actually knew it would be impossible for him to return to normal once he restores Al's body and never mentions it once to Al. This is not the only instance where he keeps these things to himself either to protect Al from getting hurt. IMO I think that would make Edo selfish and selfless all at the same time. Selfless because he is protecting Al from the truth and getting hurt, but also selfish because he chose to endure all the pain and suffering by himself. So sad, but I think Edo has a really good reason for his selfishness. Brotherly love is a beautiful thing.


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post Apr 15 2005, 09:35 PM
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... I don't think that's what his "disappear" mean (I would havce freaked out already if that's really what he said... I couldn't have missed that) ... I think he means that he and Al will just go somewhere else where people won't find them... I don't think he KNEW that he would disappear... cuz in episdoe 51, he doesn't have the stone so of cuz, it would make sense for him to disappear... but for 22, he "has" the stone so he shouldn't... >.> Let me check on that after finals (I mean, listen to what he said to be exact, not just look at the subtitles)


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Kaiko
post Apr 16 2005, 12:05 AM
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I don't think what Ed did in Ep. 51 was selfish. I mean, he cares for Al (dang why can't all siblings be like that? xD) and I suppose he wanted the best for his brother. smile.gif


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Edo-mame
post Apr 16 2005, 12:54 AM
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I guess I took it too literally... though to me it still makes sense. He didn't say "we would disappear" (the way he said it really made it seem like he won't be "disappearing" with Al since it would have made more sense to include Al) though so thats why I thought he knew that even the stone may not be enough of a sacrifice(at the time I don't think he was 100% sure that the stone he made would be complete unlike the others that were incomplete).

But the rest of the stuff I said is still not flawed if you ignore my literal interpretation of "disappearing" laugh.gif


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AA battery
post Apr 16 2005, 12:38 PM
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nanah, that was good tho... cuz I really won't remember small details like that... That was good, really biggrin.gif You paid so much more attention than I did xD


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Gr33D
post Apr 19 2005, 06:01 AM
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lol, " Hope it's ok for a newbie to start a new topic"

Well, we all gotta start somewhere. wink.gif


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Full Metal Elf
post Dec 4 2005, 12:09 PM
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Wow...great topic. I'm getting all emotional just reading it...T_T. I too believe that Ed certianly wasn't acting seflish. Honestly though, I don't know what more to say that hasn't already been said. I was sad at the end when Al and Ed couldn't be together, but it just goes to show how hard it was for them to get what they wanted, and even when they're so close....ultimatly they weren't meant to have it. *sob*


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The Great Aspara...
post Dec 4 2005, 09:01 PM
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ah, how can our dear beloved edo be selfish?

when ed resurrected al that last time with alchemy, he didn't know what would happen cuz he thought that he would be paying with his life to bring his precious lil aru back, surprisingly (and thankfully) it was the whole 4 years of work or w/e. and ed didn't know whether he'd even be able to do it or not, so when al came back younger and without those memories, it's not like he could help it.

and plus, if ed was really gonna be selfish, he wouldn't bother to try to bring back al and risk his life, he's just leave the whole thing or blah.

its the pure love for his lil brother that led him to attempt to bring life back to al. or al back to life. or w/e.


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blackrider76
post Dec 9 2005, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE(Edo-mame @ Apr 14 2005, 08:30 PM) [snapback]153068[/snapback]

I see, I see. But I did say that he was selfish when he was older, just not when he did what he did for Al in the end. Taking (or wanting to take) the philosopher's stone away from people is selfish... even though he only thought about doing that before he found out that you could make it.

i dont think taking the Philosophers Stone away is selfish
look at what happens to him when he searches for it.
do you think that it would be selfish to take away such a terrible experience from hundreds of others?
look at the guy who cured fossil disease; he died. (forgot his name)
look at that guy who had the red water fountain; he died (forgot his name too ><)
look at scar; he died making the stone.
and finally, look at ed, who almolst died, if not for his brother.
almolst everyone who searched for the legendarstone has died or expierenced great suffering.
ed believes if he wipes the philosphers stone from the face of the earth, no one has to look for it anymore, thus preventing more corrupted minds to kill thousands just for the sake of thier own desires.

Young ed, as seid earlier, isnt mature.
he believes everything will be happy if he brings back the dead.


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