HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Fuhrer King Bradley Fans!, Hail to the King
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post Dec 18 2005, 07:29 PM
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Poor Bradley. His recent actions against Martel have made many a fan-girl, and mewling fan-boy cry in outrage. Its true, the majority who cry out are illiterate morons, but the mob sways the Emperor.


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The Great Aspara...
post Dec 18 2005, 08:23 PM
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Almost random: I like his japanese voice tho lol. it's all creepy and whooshy and fits him well.

poor martel. ;_;


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Nepharski
post Apr 27 2006, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE(eina @ Dec 17 2005, 03:34 AM) [snapback]330487[/snapback]
Hmm... I wonder what the "real" Bradley's like.... unsure.gif

Actually, I think that's where his eccentricities come from.


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Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
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Colette
post Apr 27 2006, 05:08 PM
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Bradley's character's awesome and his skills are amazing.


But...I really find it hard to like him ^^' Marta, Dorochette, Law, and the rest of the crew as well as Ran Fan are some of my favorite characters....


He'd redeem himself a little if he rebelled against Father..It'd be nice to have that kind of muscle on our side.


Edit: I have a question for you Bradley fans...Do you think his name is better as Wrath or Pride?


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N. Havoc J.
post Apr 27 2006, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE(Summoner Colette @ Apr 27 2006, 04:08 PM) [snapback]386940[/snapback]
I have a question for you Bradley fans...Do yo think his name is better as Wrath or Pride?
Lets just say when he said, "Wrath of Anger" in the manga I was like, "Bradley you may have just went psycho on Greed and killed a bunch of cool people but you kick so much ass." And also he is partly responsible for giving Alphonse his memory back so thatís another point for manga Bradley.


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Nepharski
post Apr 27 2006, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE(Summoner Colette @ Apr 27 2006, 05:08 PM) [snapback]386940[/snapback]

Bradley's character's awesome and his skills are amazing.


But...I really find it hard to like him ^^' Marta, Dorochette, Law, and the rest of the crew as well as Ran Fan are some of my favorite characters....


He'd redeem himself a little if he rebelled against Father..It'd be nice to have that kind of muscle on our side.


Edit: I have a question for you Bradley fans...Do yo think his name is better as Wrath or Pride?

He works as both, I think. But, as Manga Wrath is far superior to Anime Pride, I'm going to go with Wrath.

Just bought Vol 7, where our man of the hour claim both the cover and the spine (but not the character page, for some strange reason).


--------------------
Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
Nepharski - Our first, last, and hopeful not only line of defense against bad Homunculi theories.

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Colette
post Apr 28 2006, 01:19 PM
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7 out?! I thought it was coming May 2nd. Well, I'm gonna go drag my mom to the bookstore.


The way I see it, he's more prideful in the anime, and wrathful in the manga, so either way he's fine. But like you said, he's superior in the manga.


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BrownChimera
post Jun 2 2006, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE
But...I really find it hard to like him ^^' Marta, Dorochette, Law, and the rest of the crew as well as Ran Fan are some of my favorite characters....


I love Marta, Law, and Dorochet too. But can't you still love a character that killed one of your favorites? : )


QUOTE
He'd redeem himself a little if he rebelled against Father..It'd be nice to have that kind of muscle on our side.


OO Rebelling against Father is a bad idea. You do it if you're stupid, crazy, or outrageous. He's been showing some insubordination, recently, but it would mean trouble for him if he went all the way. But anyway...

Well, from reading the thread, there's definitely a lot of Wrath fans. Yay! ^__^

I agree with Nepharski on all points about what makes Bradley awesome in the manga.

As I've said before, I love Ed Blaylock as opposed to (Wow, I can't even spell it. OO) It's gravelly and charismatic and insanely versatile. I can't wait for eps. 40-43 to show again!

QUOTE
But, as Manga Wrath is far superior to Anime Pride,


OO So, that settles it. There are a good number of Wrath fans, a small number of Pride fans. I'm not saying I don't like Wrath, but I agree with you Nepharski, you're the number one manga Bradley fan. : )
And I'm the number one anime Bradley fan. (I think. OO Anyone wants to dispute me, go ahead)

Why I love Pride in the anime:

Maybe he doesn't give Ed melons, maybe he doesn't even like melons in the anime, and he doesn't climb out windows or dress in Hawaiian shirts, but in the earlier episodes, you can still see his eccentricities. He has (only one!) sword, and is a gentleman and a brute at the same time. I agree with Nepharski, sword > gun, any day. XD In the later episodes, we see he is weary, dead, and though he has preferred status among the Homunculi, he isn't bursting with joy. Any true joy in him is a facade, a facade that he has to keep up among the humans and doesn't crack fully until the final battle with Mustang. And though he is the most human, he can still move inhumanly fast. ^__^ Even if he truly is just a puppet, he's still the one who has to walk the tightest rope.

So now, onto his defense:

Ep. 6: Well, no odd things there. We see him beginning the alchemy exam, asking Ed why he wants to be in the military, and judging the practical part of the exam. During the interview, after Ed answers why he wants to be a state alchemist, they focus on Pride's eye and it smiles. Even if that's part of the facade, he's one hell of an actor to look that happy. More development in ep. 8. First appearance, he's hiding behind Alphonse, still smiling. The way he speaks to Alphonse is extremely charismatic. If so many people were surprised when Pride reveals himself in episode 40, he must be fooling the audience really well. In these modes, it's nearly impossible to detect his intentions. As Mustang said, "That guy's a wall. I can't figure him out." The other Homunculi do some spur-of-the-moment acting, but because Pride is in the public eye, he must be that way most of the time. Since you know his true personality, it must be hard for him to keep smiling all the time. And it's not just the smile. I don't know about anyone else, but at first he makes you feel completely at ease. He's easygoing, personable---lulls you into the perfect trap.

At the end of ep.8, there's the letter and the naming of Ed. Mustang remarks that the King has a good sense of humor. Okay, he's funny! Also, kudos to the Japanese version: "We give thy the name..." Then the letter goes on to tell some ingredients for the Stone, how it will appear, etc., etc. Subliminal messages, anyone?

The point that I wanted to make about the letter is that the speech is medieval-style. I don't know about the other military officers, but we've seen Ed's writing, which is informal (maybe Ed isn't a good example)
But in ep. 18, Marcoh's notes are in colloquial speech, and as far as I remember, the official list of military officers are an official document, but nothing that looks that it might be archaic. "Thee" might not be archaic in Amestris, but it's pretty funny that's the only place where to us, archaic words are found. In other words, that's another eccentricity. There's also "Be Thou for the People". I'm not sure if Bradley came up with that one or it was from before.

Now, I'm not saying that Wrath is nothing like this. I'm taking the anime on its own terms.

Moving on...Time for ep. 13! I can't remember if this is the one or if it's a later episode where the guys from Central assemble and then Sloth and Pride walk in. He has a huge, gleeful grin (and this rather disarming laugh. OO) More development: He's not only capable of acting genially to people, he can look downright ecstatic.

Mustang is so sure that Bradley won't allow him to fight Ed, and Pride not only allows it, but thinks it will be fun. Here is the first time he looks a bit smug, (Some people will disagree with me and say that he looks smug for the entire series) He always looks smug when drinking something, which he's doing here. The smugness confirms the not-very-desirable "I'm above you" mentality, but as far as I've noticed, it's only when he's drinking something....anyway...

Now we see he looks downright irritated as Hughes is shouting away on the megaphone. What he's irritated at, I'm not sure. But now there's geniality, smugness, irritation. Three separate expressions! They're hard to catch, but unless I'm blind, they're there!

Finally, he stops the fight before things might get bloody. He could have let them knock each other out, kill each other---his tendency before episode 40 seems an awful lot like restraint. We learn that he puts his trousers over his boots, or wears shoes. Some completely arbitrary thing that we might not ever know the reason for, but it's so random--another eccentricity. One could argue that it's the Fuhrer's official uniform, but anyway...

Now I'm starting to forget episode numbers. We first see a glimpse of Pride's true face when Mustang first leaves his office. "Take it from me, Mustang. The Philosopher's Stone does not exist". There is a stark difference between Pride in public and in private. You might not recognize him: he's that different. I will make one comparison to Wrath: Pride shifts gears much less wildly. He's not grinning hugely and the next moment looks like he's going to stab you. He's slower, but that doesn't make his characterization inferior.

Moving on...
"No more running, Colonel, take him down." From what I can see, his eye there is pretty malciious. Whenever he is attacking, or has his men attack, his expression turns ruthless. Now he's not smiling anymore. It doesn't appear that he's enjoying it. Maybe he is, who knows? Still, the facade is complete. Ah, right, I forgot the blue pajamas part. Ep. 22, he comes out as if one cue, and still, I'm not sure who detected any insincerity at that point, anyone who believed he wasn't looking out for the Elrics for their sake.

Attack on lab 5, he's in his black shirt, still no clue. He's all business. Looks really angry. More ruthlessness.
When Armstrong saves the Elrics Pride looks satisfied. Not relieved, or excited, just satisfied. He had more or less the same look after Ed's fight with Mustang. In retrospect, because the Homunculi initially had Ed pegged as the best candidate for making the Philosopher's Stone, any damage to Ed would be a detriment to the forging of the stone. I will come back to this point.

We don't see much of him until pre-Hughes' death. More dropping of and putting back on of facades. "Extract the bad part out" seems to be the green light to Sloth to have Hughes killed. Still, no one except Hughes knows that there's anything awry. Ep. 25 came unexpected to viewers, so I heard. More development here. You don't see it on his face, but the fact that he's smiling as he seals Hughes' fate is rather cruel, don't you think? Of course, that's still speculation. Who knows what he's actually thinking? But it's in interesting coincidence. Sending people to their death..with a smile! : ) Whether he's actually happy about it, I'm not sure, but more on that later...

Skip Envy as Pride...>< Rant--Envy is one of the reasons why Pride gets screwed over on the screentime. The good thing is that every appearance since it's so skimpy, counts. He's not there just to take up space (Cough) like Mrs. Bradley (Cough)

I've blanked up to episode 37. Riza hints more at Pride's character, I don't remember the exact quote but she says "the tiger [has made his move]". Animal comparisons are usually helpful, and though he hasn't fought at all yet, he's still downright fearsome.
Then he orders--oO I don't remember that part--but he himself looks pissed off. I can't put it in context--what was he ordering Mustang to do again?

Now, to episode 40! Lets analyze this. Pride catches Marta listening in. Here we see Pride at one of his coldest, and at his most despicable: a cover-up and allowing the murder of Ed if he's not dead yet. Now, going to the execution. Marta, by the time she's heard what's going on, is way in over her head. On top of that, she tries to slit Pride's throat, and continues to combat him without success. Then the eyepatch falls off. She A. knows the military's plans B. saw his eye C. is a fugitive. There is no possible way that she can live---they have to keep absolute secrecy or else the whole plan will be blown wide open. Though he goes about it calmly, rather grandly, there's really no other reason why she has to die other than she knows what's really going on. THey did it with Hughes, and they did it again with Marta. With Marta, there's an instant excuse: she's a fugitive. But you have to wonder if he would have killed her if she had heard the military's plans.

Ep. 41, recap of execution. That scene more than ever tells what Pride is. I mean, we knew what he was from ep. 40, but in 41, he's leaning over, his sword drawn--looks predatory as all hell. The tiger analogy is fitting here.

Ep. 42. My second-favorite of the dub episodes, because the dialogue is changed to really make this a heated argument. I don't remember exact quotes, but here's a conflict between the young idealist and old realist. Pride believes the Homunculi owe everything to their master. Now, I hear that "teacher" also means "master", but it looks like a different connotation this time around. Though some can argue that the master-slave relationship is something exclusive to the manga, I think it applies to the anime as well. Because if not, why is Pride so slavishly devoted to Dante?

As for him being a puppet, that can't be disputed. But watch his eyes. They have that characteristic deadness for mindless people, but he looks A. weary and B. resentful. There's also that resentment in his voice. Maybe it's subdued, but he refers to "our master" in a tired voice. I don't know if I can go so far as to say bitter, but being alive doesn't give him joy. Then Lust says that "we're not alive". Interesting point here, Pride says to Lust "[this is no time ] for school-girl infatuations". A bit of Scar x Lust on the part of the dub. XD But really, why would Pride care? XD

Lalaa..transmutation. Both Lust and Pride are shown. Yes, Lust disobeyed orders, and Pride actually looks happy upon the Stone's creation. No one knows his personal motivation, but he's not exactly upset that the
Stone was created. If I remember correctly, Lust wasn't supposed to have it done yet.

Ep. 43, train scene! Again, weary, eyes are cold.

Ep. 45: A side note, who thinks the random guy who was standing around when the Stone was created 400 years ago looked a lot like a younger Bradley? oO Anyway...

I don't remember when Pride was talking to Archer about illegal transmutations...I'm fuzzy on the episode where Pride orders Mustang to hunt down the Elrics. He still looks angry there, but it's still his mask. There's no deadness about the eyes there.

Ep. 46: In front of the Homunculi, he isn't acting for anyone. Once Envy attacks, there are those dead eyes again. Not in color (that's not until later), but---he looks rather empty, don't you think?

I'm forgetting ep. niumbers again..when Mustang accuses Juliet Douglas Pride almost drops his facade. He looks more grave than he did when he was talking to Hughes. When looking at Mustang he looks dead serious. But the rest of him is in shadow, so I can't tell much more. When he passes by and Mustang's eyes shift, the facade is up again. His business-like neutral angry expression, if that makes any sense.

Who is he phoning? Why does he need permission to go home for his son's birthday? : (

Ep. 50: By now, the audience knows that everything he says about caring for his family is insincere, but it's still a wonderful act. I love the part when Selim welcomes Pride home and the latter says, "Mind your volume, Selim". I got another interpretation from someone. Either he's enforcing the tendencies of military households, or he's expressing his irritation at the loud noises of children. What do you think?

He gives the key to Selim and he says something that indicates Selim literally holds the key to Pride's life. That was a stupid move on his part. Perhaps this is where his arrogance comes in: maybe he didn't think that Selim would bring the skull to him. Maybe he wanted to continue to keep up the facade and not refuse Selim anything. After all, he instigated it when he asked Selim if there was anything else he would like.

On the subject of the skull, someone commented that Pride is sweating when he puts the skull in the safe, implying that "it is hard for him to do". He doesn't look overjoyed, either. Selim can't see Pride, but we can see the complete lack of life in his expression.

Mustang attacks! More characterization points. Pride includes "purifying our country" on the results of his policies. Here he has the most arrogant expression, continuing to play his role. I don't know if he's even sincere at this point: he could be speaking in the tone of how his reign will be remembered. After all, the sins inspire their name, they're not necessarily lustful, or slothful---exceptions are Gluttony, Envy, Greed, and Wrath. Maybe Pride is proud: maybe he's not. More on that soon. So a proud-looking Pride elegantly attacks Mustang.

Ep. 51: Now the facade is gone for good. Like how Mustang sees Pride's physical innards as he reforms, Mustang sees him for what he is. No more games now, no more mind games, just a killing machine who takes no joy in killing. In temperament his sadism is obvious: he pierces Mustang, and then slowly jerks the sword to the side. We see him as Marta saw him before she died: predatory. When Selim comes in, Pride brings back the facade one more time. But it's cracked wide open. The smile isn't all that genial: and remove Mustang's bloody body from the wall and even then it doesn't look all that genial. Dare I say it's one of those Hakkai-esque half-smiles that are ridiculously transparent.

When he puts his hands on Selim it's a parody of an embrace--which Selim learns a second later.XP

By now no more facade. His right eye, which has this grayish color, is filled with nothing but anger, rage, Wrath-like emotions. That's the important thing. Last thing I'll contextualize, and then I'm done. I promise. ^^ Selim has the skull. Now, someone posted somewhere on a website that "Pride kills his son because he gave his opponent an advantage over him". THAT'S an understatement. The skull there means that he's as good as dead. Yes, he needs parenting classes. But he didn't do it randomly, or out of the blue. Selim, in bringing the skull, is much as enemy as Mustang is. Maybe if he were more proud he wouldn't have chucked Selim. It would mean that he would want to accept death honorably. But, in this last scene, he resembles a cornered tiger. Selim is just the unwitting hunter that happened to be his adopted son.Am I skewing the story? Maybe. But it's the only way to see from the point of view of this supposedly under-developed character.

And look at that expression when Mustang finally holds out the skull. That's more than just pissed off. That's pure, unmitigated hate. Very wrathful. Finally..the burning. What a scream from Ed Blaylock! Final development in the end: he's not a proud after all. He dies rather pathetically, a raging monster. Nope, not very proud at all.

From what I've found, Pride is highly developed in the anime, not in terms of backstory but what his expressions are, his tone, sometimes very subtle things that you have to strain to hear. He's like Lust and Sloth in that in truth, he doesn't really embody the sin associated with him, he exists, doesn't live, is joyless, and more so than Envy, though Pride is younger, is a weary old man. He's more wrathful than proud, and doesn't climb out windows or hand out melons, but he's a tragic character in that he can't live his own life. He is controlled by someone else, he might not like it, but that's how it is, and he bears it until the finish.

And what does Dante do? She doesn't even know Pride has died! I hardly think that Dante finds even Pride irreplaceable.



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[b][font=Garamond]"The legless chicken went bouncing past him and fell down the stairwell."
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Homunculi Fan
post Jul 19 2007, 09:26 PM
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umm.. do you have any pictures of pride from the waist up with his ulitimant eye showing ?
if so then will you umm...post them? please ummm....if that's okay sry
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