HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 30: The Ishvalan War Of Extermination - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! May contain spoilers for the first 30 episodes!!
Forsaken Love
post Nov 3 2009, 10:51 AM
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^ thanks so much for informin us bout the OVA i just watched it, really liked it happy.gif


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SonPan
post Nov 3 2009, 11:54 AM
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Thanks alot about the info...
I loved Ed eating at the beg, am watching it currently smile.gif
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penguintruth
post Nov 3 2009, 02:54 PM
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Here are some of my more thorough thoughts on episode 30:

So, Bones took my favorite volume of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga, volume 15, and stripped it of its significance and impact. It's not too surprising. Spreading parts of the Ishbal flashback into other episodes, keeping this one episode, it was bound to be watered down. I shouldn't have expected any more, but I had faith in Bones, and it was misplaced.

Is it just me, or does the war as it's depicted in this episode seem a little... tame? In the manga, it's total chaos in most of the scenes. Total hell. Here, it almost seems like merely a police action, a series of small shoot outs. You really don't get the same severe brutality you saw in the manga, in scenes like Kimbley's with Armstrong at the wall.

We also miss quite a bit of the heart, too. I know they already covered most of Scar's past, but they missed the Rockbells being warned by their supplier, Ishbalan Amestrian soldiers being locked up, and Knox talking with Marcoh. We even lost some of the little extras, like cameos by Lust and Envy, or Bradley's inner thoughts as he saw Roy stare up at him ("He's looking right at me... no, past me."). The ambiguous wickedness of Kimbley at this point is somewhat lost. Hell, they even cut down his speech, and they got rid of all those other soldiers that were around them. It felt like Roy, Riza, and Hughes were fighting the war at times.

Look, the episode itself was pretty good on its own. We got most of the basics. Roy and Riza's past, Kimbley being a douche, state alchemists killing folks, Philosopher's Stones being created out of Ishbalans, and King Bradley looking down on humans (did anyone find it strange that he kept calling those Ishbalans "humans"? Isn't that suspicious behavior for somebody who is trying to pass as human himself?). Fine. So it's a good episode, but it could have been two masterpiece episodes.


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Fullmetal Alchemist is over! Thank you, Hiromu Arakawa! ;_;
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FailToImpress
post Nov 3 2009, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (FMAobsessed @ Nov 3 2009, 04:05 AM) *
Did anyone else notice the fact that Roy's alchemy glove made a sound effect whenever he put it on in that episode?


Haha, yes I did. laugh.gif
The whole time I was thinking; gloves don't make that sound, or any sound at all!
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hawkflame
post Nov 3 2009, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Nov 3 2009, 04:54 PM) *
Is it just me, or does the war as it's depicted in this episode seem a little... tame? In the manga, it's total chaos in most of the scenes. Total hell. Here, it almost seems like merely a police action, a series of small shoot outs. You really don't get the same severe brutality you saw in the manga, in scenes like Kimbley's with Armstrong at the wall.


Agreed- where were the bodies littered about, the gunfire? It didn't do half the job it should have in showing how insane the experience was.

And I agree with you about the lack of heart. When Roy is speaking to Hughes at the end there, firming up his resolve and looks up at the Furher (or rather, through the Furher) That whole scene worked as well as it did because it was the culmination of the entire war experience. We share in Roy's frustration, anger, and disillusionment because we read the first 150 pages prior to that, and we feel how brutal and demoralizing it was.

The anime was -telling- us how it felt without making us feel it.

-Every- character had development in these chapters. Mustang. Hawkeye. Kimbley. Armstrong. Hughes. Winry's parents. Scar and his brother. Even the furher himself. About half of these moments were lost. And while these scenes might be spread out elsewhere, not having them in one condensed story arc like this dilutes them and removes them of their proper context.
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archronos
post Nov 3 2009, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Nov 3 2009, 03:54 PM) *
Here are some of my more thorough thoughts on episode 30:

So, Bones took my favorite volume of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga, volume 15, and stripped it of its significance and impact. It's not too surprising. Spreading parts of the Ishbal flashback into other episodes, keeping this one episode, it was bound to be watered down. I shouldn't have expected any more, but I had faith in Bones, and it was misplaced.


Agreed, while I do believe that the episode isn't (that) bad on it's own, as a adaptation of the manga chapters it is an absolute failure.

The most aggrevating part for me though was simply the cut and paste dialogue. Because so much was cut out, a lot of the dialogue was shorten resulting in speeches that sounded disjointed and awkward (in context).

Also this may be nitpicking, but the animators seem to have a really difficult time in keeping Riza drawn consistently.
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Kaleidoscope
post Nov 3 2009, 11:20 PM
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Echoing what everyone said, I was disappointed with all that they cut. But I wasn't surprised, so I still enjoyed the episode. One advantage of the cuts was that the whole story seemed to focus in on Riza's perspective, and lent it a really cool/tragic juxtaposition, since (back then at least), she exudes more innocence than Knox, Marcoh, or Mustang, making her participation in the massacre all the more twisted.

The weirdest thing was that they did not clarify the significance of her tattoo. This is so important to Roy and Riza's back story that I'm convincing myself that they'll be more clear later, maybe even next ep. Hope I'm right.

I liked how they actually made it look like Scar killed Marcoh, made a good ending.


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thunderbreak
post Nov 4 2009, 05:16 AM
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i dislike how they put on riza's sudden appearance scene(gunshot is way dramatic),and too much time spend on narratives.the part i really like is kimbley's speech.his seiyuu is really good.on some indiviual scenes alone such as the cementary scene,is nicely done.

anyone know where to watch the armstrong clip?

what i like the manga is the drama.well,someone can say that 03 vers has drama,but from one who read the manga first,i must say the manga has a degree of realism which draws me more than other mangas do. (i'm not comparing to anime1 anyway).i am seriously disappointed with this episode.no wonder anime viewers cant feel the sadness and cruelty of war.you'll felt arakawa 's sincerity,and one of the things she truly master is drama.you dont need to read the preface to know she interviewed veteran soldiers.they could have left mei on next ep.i'm not sure whether they intend to make FMA more shonen(ref to some comments that says FMA is more of a seinen).Bones,i really hope this is not the case here,and if this ep is cut due to fear of broadcast rates/budget cuts,i 'll take off my comments here.they are quite good with scar's part earlier.i'm not sure why why this happens.all of this episode is nothing but a mere memory.and this is supposed to show how roy built his beliefs,and also riza's,and how it affect every life.the thing is ,this ep wasnt nicely cut.it's really weird.


the seiyuus does well here.i have no complaints,and my thuimbs up to kimblee seiyuu.


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Currently on :Silverspoon,re-reading FMA project(will post to blog soon)
Planning list:Pumpkin scissors,Stein Gate,Fairy Tail
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Animeoldtimer
post Nov 5 2009, 01:04 PM
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I was disappointed this frame wasn't included in the show:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/58/06/

However, I thought it was fairly good, but a bit rushed. Although necessary, I didn't care for the length of the Ishval segment in the manga, so I didn't mind it being cut a bit short. I wished they did have the segment about Winry's parents though so we could get to know them better in the anime.


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heartwing713
post Nov 5 2009, 01:12 PM
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Like many others on this thread, I was a little disappointed in this episode. However, it was a lot better than it could have been. I think the extra elaboration on flame alchemy and Riza's tattoo will come in a later flashback. It's important, and I don't think Bones would leave it out completely. I don't know about the other things they left out. Those could be scattered in later, but their omission seems a little more...permanent...to me. Overall, I'm impressed by Bones. It's hard to cram such a huge flashback into one episode, but war is tough to animate, and probably expensive because of all the detail. They probably had to put it all in one episode because of budget and pacing.

Totally off subject: By the way, does anyone else get the feeling Bones reads these threads? I mean, a few weeks ago, everyone was griping about Hawkeye's lack of eyecatches, then she gets two and the "see you next time" at the end. Creepy, right? XD


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Radadinator
post Nov 6 2009, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (heartwing713 @ Nov 5 2009, 01:12 PM) *
Totally off subject: By the way, does anyone else get the feeling Bones reads these threads? I mean, a few weeks ago, everyone was griping about Hawkeye's lack of eyecatches, then she gets two and the "see you next time" at the end. Creepy, right? XD


Not to mention that they're naked. tongue.gif

Anyways, speaking as someone who's read the Ishval chapters once maybe three years ago and doesn't remember a thing, I liked this episode. Not a favorite, but it's okay. You can all gripe about the great stuff that I've missed and give me some links to the manga chapters in question now, so that I may too gasp in horror at the things that they've left out.
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Michiyo-
post Jan 29 2011, 03:27 PM
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Please add FMA:B English dubbed episode 30 (on CN on Adult Swim) talk-back/discussions here. smile.gif

FMA:B will air 1:00 AM - 1: 30 AM and 5:00 AM - 5:30 AM eastern time. smile.gif


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hawkflame
post Jan 30 2011, 12:49 AM
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I've already said my peace on the episode, so I'll add one thing about the dub: Eric Vale is not smooth enough as the nihilistic yet philosophical Kimblee.
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S.F. Thunder
post Jan 30 2011, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE
Eric Vale is not smooth enough as the nihilistic yet philosophical Kimblee.


I agree entirely, though I do think he sounded better this time around than in the first episode.


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KimbleeWorshippe...
post Jan 30 2011, 10:58 PM
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^ Yeah, ya know, the first time I really heard Kimblee's voice, I wasn't sure about it either. I always pictured his voice being a little lower and smoother and, well, sexier. (Maybe that's just the fangirl in me, but whatever). But I have to say, I really got used to it after a while. It's not what I expected out of him, for sure. But it works if you give it a chance. Eric's voice acting is really nice, and the way he just plain says things makes me think, "Okay, yeah. That's Kimblee." Especially when he gets all excited and screaming about how "THIS STONE IS AMAAAZING!!! xDD" Oh man. I just thought that was wonderful.

*wipes off nosebleed* But enough of that. Let me just say that when I watched this episode for the first time (in Japanese... I couldn't wait), I was really disappointed, just like most of you here. Volume 15 is my absolute FAVORITE volume of FMA, and seeing things be cut out of it and shoved all into one, tiny episode broke my heart. But oddly enough, I couldn't stop watching it. It's a very addicting episode in a weird way. At this point, I think I'd even have to say I like it. I guess my love for Ishval stuff just sort of took over.


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