HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 57: Eternal Rest - Content Discussion Thread, Warning, possible spoilers for the first 57 episodes
His Name is Unkn...
post May 16 2010, 04:20 PM
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*Caution, storm cloud approaching* rolleyes.gif

Back from a long retirement from this series to make a few comments...

Initially, I had some very high hopes for this manga based outing, but after around episode 7 or 8, I could no longer stomach the self-referntial style of the new series: instead of taking the effort to establish a stand-alone anime, what Bones seemed to be shooting for was more of a "well, we can just borrow the emotional impact from the first series to avoid having to do a proper first season to Brotherhood (and make lots of money on the side, hehehe dry.gif )." That was a bit much - or should I say, not enough - for me, and I threw in the towel before the show even got to the new material...

...but, curiosity killed the cat, as they say, and once I realized the episodes had progressed to one of my favorite fights in the series (Bradley/Greedling/Fu/Bucanneer), I braced myself for the worst and clicked play.

Wow - what a disappointment. My stomach actually churned in revulsion; perhaps my timing was just horribly off, and I decided to return to the series on the wrong episode, but my goodness, the quality of the animation was horrible. As has been mentioned in a previous post, the directing felt sub-par and to me, the emotional impact of Fu's sacrifice and Bucanneer's triumph was almost completely lost. The lack of resonance was not aided by the fact that I was hearing the exact same 'sad' music that I heard three or four times in the first 10 episodes. To me, the direction of Brotherhood has been a bit heavy-handed, which is a shame, because that is in complete contrast to Arakawa's own writing (most of the time laugh.gif ).

If I might be forgiven a short digression:

In the manga version of this scene, each panel is composed for dramatic effect, and Buccaneer's reveal carries far more impact. The crazy moves which Wrath was pulling during the Greeling/Fu portion of the fight were almost completely omitted here, and what remained was sloppily animated and (in my opinion) poorly conceived in both choreography and execution. On a similar note, I feel the potential for an awesome combat scene against the fuhrer candidates was completely squandered by 'chibi-hunchback' roy and 'grandpa-fuhrer' clones. This scene came off as cheesy and unrealistic in the episode - at least in the manga, the former candidates actually looked somewhat menacing...

Hate to complain so much, but honestly, one of the only things I was actually still looking forward to in my abortive viewing of this series was the Greedling/Wrath fight...the only other point of interest being the Bradley/Scar fight. I swear, if that isn't the most epic thing which I have ever witnessed in my 23 years of existence - as it deserves to be - I am taking the time to write an official letter of complaint to Bones. Not that they'll ever read it, but at least I'll have done my part to point out the complete atrocity that was episode 57. If only they had kept the director from FMA1...that man at least knew how to compose a scene.

Lest this turn into a comparison/contrast thesis between the two shows, allow me to alleviate any lingering stench of my acid rain cloud with a few positive observations:

- Royai was a yes...except for chibi-hunchback roy (seriously, I could have sworn I saw Frollo among the fuhrer candidates)
- Olivier/Izumi...ultimate awesome combo.
- The shot where Gold-Tooth raises his hand and the candidates drop down from the ceiling was all kinds of creepy cool.

I guess what I really need right now is for someone to assure me that the episode was actually much better than I thought it was. Deep breathing..calm....the......heart rate. Just keep telling yourself: "I still have anime 1, I still have manga." biggrin.gif
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Mr. Deathy
post May 16 2010, 04:29 PM
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^Just for the record you seriously did choose to return for the wrong episode. This episode was one of the most disappointing for months.

There have been a ton of amazing episodes that matched and occasionally exceeded the manga. All of Roy vs Envy was great, for example, which was a few weeks ago.

You should probably check out last week's episode for more of the Greedling - Bradley stuff anyway. It was better done as well.

As was the skirmish in the mansion (beginning of ep 45). You should check that out here as an example of when the series gets things very right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdDpKVPDhAg
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His Name is Unkn...
post May 16 2010, 05:21 PM
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Well, that was unexpectedly awesome...

...apparently then, I just have bad luck in picking favorite fights, because the Wrath/Greedling fight in that link was extremely well done. What's even more odd is the quality of the first part of the Greed fight from episode 56. I managed to hunt it down on youtube and it was almost as impressive as the link you just supplied.

Hmm, it may just be repetitious, but I find myself echoing a sentiment expressed earlier in the thread that quality control was severely lacking in this episode. For there to be such a contrast in animation in two conflicts concerning the same characters...it just seems a bit crazy.

Well, at least this new series might be good for an AMV or two...thanks for *slightly* alleviating my cardiac arrest Dr. Deathy.
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deet-tastic
post May 16 2010, 06:04 PM
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QUALITY! IT HAS IT!
They're obviously saving the budget money for the coming episodes.

So, setting that aside. I actually really liked the episode. I mean, if you really do take out the QUALITY factor, it was a good episode. I liked the choice of music in the different scenes and there was some great action. LANFAN IS ALL FAST AND STUFF. I loved the literal WHOOSH noises that went with her in the beginning.

Bones ships royai. It's been obvious since... forever.


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EveningAlchemist
post May 16 2010, 07:14 PM
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Although the quality was poking at me, I actually liked this episode too! Fuu's blood was animated very well in some parts and I did feel a lot of emotion when they finally got King Bradley. It was an amazing stunt for two characters that weren't quite main characters. Lanfan's emotional yell impacted me too!

Royai made my day! 'Cause fighting zombies together in a beautiful, coordinated way totally makes you a couple. Or at least a good team... Olivier and Izumi are one of my favourite teams too, and I loved that little speech they stuck in. Kind of a nice break from the action and nasty fighting old zombie men.

Activating the circle thing was pretty intense Even if it's not the actually Amestris-wide circle yet. and the music near the end was very dramatic! What a way to end it too... was Bone saving all the cliffhanger ending until the end?

As for the animation it's more of a "Haha" laugh and point kind of thing then a "It ruined the whole episode thing." laugh.gif


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Flamez_Freak
post May 16 2010, 08:09 PM
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this is more criticizm than wat i expected...especially after seeing this episode get so much praise on other forums......i guess ppl over there didnt notice the QUALITY....thats Y.....ahahahahhahah...if it wasnt for kasumisty , i wouldnt have noticed it either....


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FMAobsessed
post May 16 2010, 08:29 PM
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I need to catch up on FMA, but judging from other comments, it seems like this episode didn't live up to its expectations. But I will still watch it. I am disappointed that the quality still has its ups and downs. I wish it would stay consistent.

The sreenshot of Roy and Riza fighting, and leaning back to back made my day. Well, other things made my day besides a screenshot too.
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Kaori Ayanami
post May 16 2010, 09:34 PM
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Those are not zombies, but brain-washed kind-of-old men. XD

QUOTE
lol omg at those roy shots xD he either looks chibby or inhuman, wtf, BONES really has some bad consistancy in this anime, where is their quality control?

That wasn't SO bad. It's a very quick scene, so it was over soon; screenshots are needed to appreciate the extent of the problem. sleep.gif

Curiously enough, I didn't like the Roy & Riza tandem scene, because it had a moment when both pointed their weapons to each other, as that was an unnecessary repeat of the Riza vs. seemingly-Roy-Envy. Yeah, that time it wasn't really Roy, but it had the same effect. Yet, other than that... ^^
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deet-tastic
post May 16 2010, 10:23 PM
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It'd've been cooler if they had known they were back to back with eachother and Hawkeye fired some shots and Mustang did a snap or two as a swarm of old guys came at them. (I'm picturing this like Mr. and Mrs. Smith, that scene at the end where the two of them are being awesome back to back)
*goes to youtube*
This.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G5bi_46Crk

I'm not sure the episode would have been able to hand that much awesome though, that's probably why they didn't do that.
That OR, they didn't want to kill of all their royai fandom and most of their viewer ratings. Because after that, the fans would be dead from pure happy heart attacks. There would be no fans left to watch the show. And any new viewers, would die after watching that as well.


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cherry-chan. :D
post May 16 2010, 11:48 PM
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(It's been forever since I've logged in here, but I occasionally lurk around, lol. Now that I'm on summer break, I can finally post.) -ahem- XD Wow. Haha. Episode 57 gives me mixed feelings. XD I don't particularly hate it, nor do I like it as much as the other episodes. I'd have to agree that there was a little lack of quality in this one. (Those Roy screencaps made me laugh and cringe at the same time! HAHA) Maybe they're saving all their budget for some epic Royai scenes sooner or later the more intense action scenes in the future eps. (Seeing as they're almost catching up with the manga. ;____;)

Anyway... while there were some not-so-good parts and while this episode didn't particularly give me that "omg this is so epic i'm going to watch it again" feeling... it was okay, I guess. XD There were some good parts.

The Greed VS Wrath fight was good. I liked how Greed and Ling reacted at the same time to Fuu. And Ranfan was pretty awesome too, even if she was just running around and sneaking... when she called out for Fuu, that was awesome. The part when Fuu attempts to injure Bradley by "sacrificing" himself was kinda good in the beginning. (The blood and stuff, the reactions--awesome) But when Bradley counterattacked, everything just went downhill. Simply put, that scene didn't have as much impact as it did in the manga.

I liked the Olivier-Izumi scene. And Olivier talking about love for the dead and stuff... I couldn't help thinking about Buccaneer. ohmy.gif T__T Oh, and I just noticed that Sig is huuuuuge. He's bigger than Armstrong! And I never thought ANYONE could be bigger than Armstrong! Except for Sloth, of course. But Sloth is a homunculus, so.. meh. XD

Dr. Goldtooth (I think I used to call him "the freako doctor" while I was reading the manga, lol) was weird as expected. XD
When he called on the Fuhrer Candidates and they suddenly jumped down from the ceiling or whatever, that was pretty cool. Haha. The fight scenes here were... okay I guess. I liked how Roy and Riza teamed up. It was kinda cool how they were back-to-back and stuff. But what I really didn't get was WHY Riza could shoot the Fuhrer Candidates, but Roy couldn't use his alchemy. I was waiting for him to do it, but he didn't, so I was quite disappointed. (Wait, did Roy use Flame Alchemy in the manga when this happened? Hmm.)

Oh well. Now that Goldtooth's there... things are going to get crazy. XD I just hope Bones will make it up to us next time. (And won't ever repeat those mistakes again. Ever. XD)
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His Name is Unkn...
post May 17 2010, 12:01 AM
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Well, I watched it again...

...while I still think the episode could have been more, it is growing on me. The quality wasn't unbelievably bad, and as others have pointed out, the blood effects and such were actually quite nice during the Fuu/Bradley exchange. I did thoroughly enjoy Fuu's vacation the second time around.

Part of the difficulty - for me, at least - in adapting to the manga panels being ripped straight from the comic is that the timing feels off. When you see it happen in 'real time,' it loses a bit of that impact that only the reader can create by going panel-by-panel and pausing to given Arakawa's art the appropriate emphasis.

Just goes to show that what works well on the page does not always translate to the screen. With that in mind, I think that in some respects this adaptation can be too faithful to the manga, if that makes any sense.

My initial impression is beginning to mend a bit - it was just such a shock to skip from like episode 1,4, and 5 to 57 and have there be such drastic quality drops in shading, line art, and fluidity. Having seen a few clips from other chapters though, the quality definitely improves, so my shock has lessened. The Fuhrer candidate fight was actually quite good; the transition from candidate to Bradley was awesome and thematically very powerful.

Of all the villains, Bradley is unequivocally my favorite - I love the inner tension in Wrath - you can see his conflict. He admires humans...at least it appears he cares for his wife, regardless of what he might say to the contrary, and there's just something so right about the king single-handedly defending his castle - almost as awesomely old-school as that mustache. I also admire that due to his single soul philosopher's stone, he actually has to be skilled in order to survive. Sure he's fast, but Bradley cannot afford to make mistakes...also, he's named after a tank and makes real tanks retreat in his presence. Bad-arse, ladies and gentlemen. Bad. arse.

Weather forecast for this evening has officially been downgraded from acid rain to partly cloudy, with mild showers and a chance for sunshine by mid-week. laugh.gif
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Vagrant
post May 17 2010, 01:52 AM
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Summary: Stuff happened.

Like His Name is Unknown said earlier, they completely mishandled Buccaneer and Fuu's finale. It was badly directed and lacked any emotional impact or 'epicness'. It was again just...Some stuff that happened.
I was also slightly bothered by the additions to Izumi and Armstrong's goodbye. Made Izumi seem almost cowardly with the "we're all fighting together smile and nod" and her "well, bye anyway."
Also, Roy's fighting the Fuhrer candidates with his hands was like whaaaaaat.

I personally didn't notice animation problems, but compared to the clarity and style of the Fuhrer three-way in the manga, they kinda screwed that up.


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Broken Chouchou
post May 17 2010, 06:38 AM
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'Some stuff happened'

That's very describing for quite the number of Brotherhood episodes.


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A Pierrot's Aria
post May 17 2010, 11:07 AM
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Personally, I actually really liked this episode, I really enjoyed the Fuhrer v Fu and Ling and it was cool to see Roy engaging in some close range combat. =P

I think a lot of the parts in this episode I barely remember happening in the manga (because my memory is terrible!), like the part with Fu and Buccaneer; so I found those bits really shocking and I thought it was really well done. I liked how Fu had nothing against Buccaneer using him as cover and ultimately stabbing him with the sword to get to Bradley.

Gold-tooth's eyes looked really freaky, too. xD

I know that me liking this is probably against what everyone else thought, but meh, I really enjoyed it! Sometimes 'stuff' does need to happen. :/


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Vlyse
post May 17 2010, 02:59 PM
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Been a while since I posted my thoughts, I think, so here goes.

-I don't remember the Central soldiers taking off their badges. I liked it in the manga when they just took off their hats in front of the general.
-Er, Goldtooth's room is kinda..small. Considering all that will be going on in there.
-For some reason, I always liked the Fuhrer candidates a tad more than the zombies. Maybe it's because they were a plot point brought up and never addressed until now?
-I liked it more in the manga when Fu backflips after Bradley slices his forehead. Here he hops slowly 3 times...? Still a great panel-by-panel fight, though.
-When Ling saved Fu, he got faster than Bradley.
-One is All, All is One is definitely a good track for this scene, but I dunno..maybe there was better? Like stopping the music when Bradley gets stabbed.
-Ed, Al, Izumi splitscreen! Always love those. I loved how they kept this page intact, but Olivier and Sig looked soo...static.

The worst part of this episode for me was not the unnoticeable lack of art quality (really, I never noticed it until the Roy pictures were posted) or the padding, but they didn't have Izumi and Olivier double shoe smack. Just Izumi twice. sad.gif


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