HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Father: What Is He? What Does He Want?, Post your theory on Father here!
Qeomash
post Oct 5 2005, 01:45 AM
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As Chapter 52 is coming up soon and we MIGHT be finally seeing the full face of this bugger, any last theories on who or what he is and what his aim is?

Call me crazy, but I believe that Father is HOENHEIM! For those of you who don't believe me, here are my ideas:

We first see Father in Chapter 31 when they execute Greed...




And then he downs the essence of Greed...


We dont see him again until chapter 41, right after Lust is "smothered in brimstone"... After talking with the other remaining Homunculuses, he gets up:



And, it is then later in that chapter that we finally see Hoenheim in person:


Here are my points:
- The beared - Nearly identical beards aren't they?
- Both have long hair, Hoenheim just has his tied behind him. Father can't really do that in his chair...
- Father has a few stray hairs down over his face (Pictures #1 & #4), and so does Hoenheim
- The timing:
- Hoenheim appears in the same chapter we see Father standing up
- We have not seen father since Hoenheim started roaming the country.

So, besides his identity, what are his aims? We know he want a giant Philosopher's Stone, but WHY does he want the stone? Immortal life? And why is he trying to make the gates of truth?

Anyway, discuss. I'll offer my theory on his acitvities once I find the correct page I'm looking for. biggrin.gif
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Sensenic
post Oct 5 2005, 06:29 AM
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QUOTE (Qeomash @ Oct 5 2005, 10:45 AM) *
As Chapter 52 is coming up soon and we MIGHT be finally seeing the full face of this bugger, any last theories on who or what he is and what his aim is?

Call me crazy, but I believe that Father is HOENHEIM! For those of you who don't believe me, here are my ideas:

We first see Father in Chapter 31 when they execute Greed...

And then he downs the essence of Greed...

We dont see him again until chapter 41, right after Lust is "smothered in brimstone"... After talking with the other remaining Homunculuses, he gets up:

And, it is then later in that chapter that we finally see Hoenheim in person:

Here are my points:
- The beared - Nearly identical beards aren't they?
- Both have long hair, Hoenheim just has his tied behind him. Father can't really do that in his chair...
- Father has a few stray hairs down over his face (Pictures #1 & #4), and so does Hoenheim
- The timing:
- Hoenheim appears in the same chapter we see Father standing up
- We have not seen father since Hoenheim started roaming the country.

So, besides his identity, what are his aims? We know he want a giant Philosopher's Stone, but WHY does he want the stone? Immortal life? And why is he trying to make the gates of truth?

Anyway, discuss. I'll offer my theory on his acitvities once I find the correct page I'm looking for. biggrin.gif

As we say in Spanish: "Has descubierto la sopa de ajo", man.

All that stuff is quite known, as you'll see if you take your time to read around a little. Yes, indeed, it's much probable that Hoho = Father.

Actually, it's too probable maybe, and the point some people (me included) are trying to make is that is just too obvious for it to be a big future surprise. I believe they're not the same person. But in that case they're strongly related, of course, somehow.

We don't know he's aiming to do a giant stone. That's what Marco guessed and Envy's answer was that "he's close", but not that he was right. As for Immortality... he's been there ever since prehistory, according to PG2.

EDIT: Took off the images.


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Antimony
post Oct 5 2005, 05:19 PM
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There seems to be a lot of evidence that Hohenheim could be Father, but it could just be a trick. Hiromu could be intentionally trying to make us think that they are the same person when the truth is something else entirely. Remember Maria Ross's death? I believed she really was dead until she showed up alive at the ruins.

Yet even if Hohenheim is Father or not, there is certainly something suspicious about him. Little clues here and there have led my to believe he isn't what he seems. The first ten pages of Chapter 46 are a good example of what I mean. http://groups.msn.com/FullMetalAlchemist/c...r46.msnw?Page=1


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Nepharski
post Oct 5 2005, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE(Antimony @ Oct 5 2005, 04:19 PM) [snapback]296487[/snapback]

There seems to be a lot of evidence that Hohenheim could be Father, but it could just be a trick. Hiromu could be intentionally trying to make us think that they are the same person when the truth is something else entirely. Remember Maria Ross's death? I believed she really was dead until she showed up alive at the ruins.

Yes. That's one of the reasons I think Pride could have been Grand.

QUOTE(Antimony @ Oct 5 2005, 04:19 PM) [snapback]296487[/snapback]
Yet even if Hohenheim is Father or not, there is certainly something suspicious about him. Little clues here and there have led my to believe he isn't what he seems. The first ten pages of Chapter 46 are a good example of what I mean. http://groups.msn.com/FullMetalAlchemist/c...r46.msnw?Page=1

Despite all the evidence (Similarity in look, "Something terrible is going to happen," invinsible), I just don't think it's Hohenheim. Hearing Ed talk about him, he sounded like some diabolical, self-serving jackass. But when you actually meet him...he's just so different from that image. The Hohenheim Ed talks about could be the Father, but not this guy. And then he uses his invulnerablity to guard the others on the wagon, misses his wife, etc.

Plus, why would someone so obviously powerful and enigmatic as The Father leave the safety of his lair in the first place? To tell Pinako, "Something terrible's going to happen?" He could have sent any underling to do that.

I just don't think it's him, although Hohenheim definitly has something going on ("I'm a monster").

...Perhaps Hohenheim has a twin brother...


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Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
Nepharski - Our first, last, and hopeful not only line of defense against bad Homunculi theories.

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Dark_Fishie
post Oct 5 2005, 08:52 PM
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Who thinks Father is "Old Man of the East and/or Old Man of the West?" *puts hand up*

Or, better idea (borrows Nepharski's twin theory) -

Hohenheim is Old Man of the East
- Introduced Rentanjutsu to Xing, which is a mainly medicinal art and focuses on the flow of everything living
- Even though Rentanjutsu can be used to cause damage, it is mainly used for healing as Mei-chan demonstrated with Scar's wound
[SPOILER] - When Hoho was shot at, he survived. What if it was because he used his knowledge of rentanjutsu to reduce the damage made to his body? Mei-chan was able stop Scar's wound from bleeding. If Hohenheim is indeed the "Old Man of the East", then bullet wounds should be easy for him to handle.
- Also, Hoho said to the bandits that shooting at people is not nice and he was definitely NOT interested in chasing after them. Hoho clearly demonstrates that he does not have a violent personality. [/SPOILER]
Father is Old Man of the West (Evil Twin)
- Introduced Renkinjutsu
- Ling (I think...) said that Amestris' military is more advanced than Xing's and that Xing's medicinal arts is better developed than Amestris' because of Renkinjutsu and Rentanjutsu, respectively. With the homunculi and their leader, Father, having direct control over the military, they can greatly influence the development of renkinjutsu in Amestris. Also, with all the bloodshed that has happened ever since Wrath became the head of the military, the homunculi clearly show their complete disregard for innocent human lives. Who knows what they might do next - maybe even blowing up the entire country! ;P
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GaluxKitty
post Oct 5 2005, 09:30 PM
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Personally, I think Hoenheim may be a "Red Herring" of sorts; it seems way too obvious that he would be Pride to me. I think Arakawa's trying to lead us off the true trail.


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Antimony
post Oct 5 2005, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE(GaluxKitty @ Oct 6 2005, 12:30 AM) [snapback]296607[/snapback]

Personally, I think Hoenheim may be a "Red Herring" of sorts; it seems way too obvious that he would be Pride to me. I think Arakawa's trying to lead us off the true trail.


I think you meant Father and not Pride, right? And I agree with you, making it Hohenheim would be too easy. Hiromu seems to like surprising us readers, and this is the perfect set up. But if he isn't Father, then what is he? He's definitely not an ordinary alchemist, and there has to be an explanation for that. Perhaps Dark Fishie's theory may have a connection.


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Dai
post Oct 6 2005, 06:46 AM
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QUOTE(Sensenic @ Oct 5 2005, 03:29 PM) [snapback]296301[/snapback]

As we say in Spanish: "Has descubierto la sopa de ajo", man.

All that stuff is quite known, as you'll see if you take your time to read around a little. Yes, indeed, it's much probable that Hoho = Father.

Actually, it's too probable maybe, and the point some people (me included) are trying to make is that is just too obvious for it to be a big future surprise. I believe they're not the same person. But in that case they're strongly related, of course, somehow.

We don't know he's aiming to do a giant stone. That's what Marco guessed and Envy's answer was that "he's close", but not that he was right. As for Immortality... he's been there ever since prehistory, according to PG2.

EDIT: Took off the images.

I agree with you XD it's obvious Hoho is "Father" and I think he is some kind of homunculus too XD maybe that'is the reason because he doesn't die when is shot.

we say too: "Has descubierto América" XD


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Guest_GS4Life_*
post Oct 6 2005, 01:39 PM
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I figured as much........

DAMN YOU Hoenheim! You killled Greed, gave your real sons more trouble than they needed,your trying to wipe out the country, and you basically order around the Homonculi, who are out to kill Ling and Ran Fan, and capture Ed, AL and Roy for human sacrifies.*Turns SSJ* Take this KAAAAAAAAAAAA
Oh another thing is that hint that the "Father" is Hoenheim is that he's bulllet proof. So yeah, now we all know. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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GaluxKitty
post Oct 6 2005, 04:19 PM
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*facepalm* Yeh, I meant Father. Sorry... ^^;


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Antimony
post Oct 6 2005, 04:33 PM
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No problem. smile.gif


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Kael
post Oct 6 2005, 04:44 PM
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While it is completely obvious that Hohenheim might be Father, that also makes it far too possible for him to be simply a distraction. However, and I very much like to do this, a character thus obvious is often dismissed as "too obvious" by readers, and they turn falsely to someone else as a suspect, which leaves Hohenheim free to be father after all.
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Qeomash
post Oct 7 2005, 01:37 AM
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Okay, I can't find the page in the manga with the quote I want. I could've sworm that Trisha's last words, at some point were "Tell your father I can't keep our promise...I'm dying first." or something to that effect.

So, my absolutly off the wall theory is this...(based on if Hoen is Father)...

...we have it all wrong. Father is not trying to make a giant Philosopher's Stone to prolong his life. Perhaps he already did that, some millenia ago. He gained true immortality. Now, he wants to die...to die alongside Trisha. The only way to do that is to reverse what he did before. And for that, he needs the stone.

That would atleast explain why Hoenheim is invincible. And why he seemed sad when he said "I'm a monster."
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Guest_ElvishVamp (too lazy to log in)_*
post Oct 7 2005, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE
...we have it all wrong. Father is not trying to make a giant Philosopher's Stone to prolong his life. Perhaps he already did that, some millenia ago. He gained true immortality. Now, he wants to die...to die alongside Trisha. The only way to do that is to reverse what he did before. And for that, he needs the stone.

I'm pretty sure I've heard that theory before. It makes more sense to me than Hohehiem trying to make a stone to prolong his life. He's seems like he's probably already immortal to me.
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Guest_GS4Life_*
post Oct 7 2005, 11:41 AM
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The "Father" wanting the Philospher Stone so he can die would make sense, except why would he want to sacrifice his own sons, and an entire continent just so he can die? Also it seems Hoenheim was trying to get the stone longgggggggg before Trishia died. I mean heck Envy called a 40+ year old Wrath a kid, so knowing that the homonculi have been around for so long, it wouldn't make sense that he suddenly wants the stone just to die.
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